Richard, There is no evidence you are more justified in laughing at my position than I am in saying your complexity issues do not appear to represent a major unsolved conceptual issues.
Remember I am not denying complexity issues don't exist. Instead I am saying it is not clear they provide a major conceptual problem. There are many tools for controlling the dynamic complexity in a Novamente-like system. How long it will take to tune and refine them is an issue. In WebMind Ben said parameter tuning turned out to be a substantial problem, particularly because of the slowness of the system on which they were exploring the parameter space. So I think it will present an engineering challenge and require more thought to provide the dynamic control required for things like efficient inferencing. But it is not clear such control issues will present a major conceptual problem. And remember I have admitted you might, in fact, be correct, and that complexity may turn out to present a major conceptual problem --- although I doubt it. So you are treating my viewpoint with much less respect than you are treating mine and it is far from clear your greater certitude is at all justified by the evidence. Merely referring to Morton-Thiokol in no way proves that you like them were right when others were wrong. Ed Porter -----Original Message----- From: Richard Loosemore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:45 AM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi] WHAT ARE THE MISSING CONCEPTUAL PIECES IN AGI? --- recent input and responses Ed Porter wrote: > ====<ED PORTER= Richard, If you will remember, I actually wrote a post, > admitting to having to eat my words, at least in part, saying there was > something to your complex systems analysis viewpoint. > > </ED PORTER>==== Yes, understood and appreciated. You know, when I talk about the complex systems issue I feel like an engineer from Morton Thiokol who knows about the temperature vulnerability of O-rings. Take a look at this extract from http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/chal-m06.shtml: "In the hours before the fatal launch, engineers from Morton-Thiokol warned NASA officials about the potentially dangerous effects of cold weather on the solid rocket boosters and particularly the O-rings." .. "Reacting to intense pressure to go ahead with the launch, officials at the Marshall Space Flight Center took the unusual step of asking Morton-Thiokol to *PROVE* that launching the shuttle was unsafe. Normally NASA demanded the opposite, i.e. that subcontractors prove a system was safe. When the engineers stuck to their position that launch conditions were unsafe, Morton-Thiokol management, not wanting to cause problems for a high profile customer, overruled them and gave NASA approval to launch." [emphasis added] I feel like I am at a launch decision meeting, trying to raise my concerns. After I speak there is a moment of embarrassed silence, followed by some words from a few people who present a complete misunderstanding of what I was talking about. Then a little more silence. Then "Well, yes, but I think we all agree that this is not really a concern.... so, are we all agreed (except for Loosemore) that the project is on track for a successful conclusion?" So when I see you write things like "Below are the most recent discussions concerning possible missing conceptual problems that might stand between us and AGI. These comments all relate to important issues to be dealt with - but it is not clear any of them represent a major conceptual problem for which we have no reasonable potential solution...", I just have to laugh. Richard Loosemore ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=101455710-f059c4 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
