I'm digging into the precedent of the SHALL implies CAN by announcement
(e.g. CFJ 3557), and I think it arose by taking various judgments out of
place. I'll post a more detailed analysis later.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 at 18:22 Josh T <draconicdarkn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good job on noticing the extra comma there.
>
> 天火狐
>
> On 12 October 2017 at 17:57, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> [Since we're on the subject of bad grammar, I might as well take care of
>> this -
>> ain't getting any fresher.]
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Oct 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>> > This auction ended at Tue, 10 Oct 2017 19:30:33 -0400, with the
>> following bids:
>> >
>> > * o, 1 sh., for emself.
>> > * o, 80 sh., for emself. (Incuded a blurb.)
>> > * G., 1,010 sh. for emself.
>>
>>
>> I transfer the Estate of Dawsbergen to myself.
>>
>>
>> I pledge that, if the below CFJ is found TRUE and survives the
>> Reconsideration/Moot
>> time frame, I will transfer 41 Shinies to Agora as unofficial payment for
>> this (and
>> no other purpose). [41 shinies was the max bid I'd decided on last week,
>> before I
>> went and re-read the auction rule].
>>
>>
>> I shiny-CFJ on the following statement, barring o:
>>
>> G. owns the Estate of Dawsbergen.
>>
>>
>> ARGUMENTS
>>
>> Regard the following hypothetical Rules clause:
>>
>> A player CAN do X by A, by B, or by C.
>>
>> I think there's only one reasonably clear interpretation of this clause,
>> that the player has three independent methods for doing X, either by A,
>> by B or by C. The grammatical clues for this construct are the
>> repetition of the term "by", and the "or" which (by clear grammatical
>> rules) distributes over the list to "A or B or C." It's pretty darn
>> clear, and really the only sensible reading.
>>
>> Compare this directly with the language of R2491, with line breaks
>> inserted for emphasis:
>>
>> The player who placed the winning bid CAN, and SHALL in a timely
>> fashion, cause Agora to transfer the auctioned Estate to the winner
>> by announcement,
>> by paying Agora the amount of the bid, or
>> by causing the winning Organization to pay Agora the amount of the
>> bid.
>>
>> Exactly the same as the hypothetical example. So I have simply opted
>> for the first method (by announcement) for making the transfer, instead
>> of the other methods ("by paying").
>>
>> That's my whole argument. It's an argument, and it's mine. But I've
>> anticipated some counterarguments for your convenience:
>>
>> Q: But don't you have to pay by announcement? I thought that was the
>> point of recent rules changes! So the 'by announcement' shouldn't be
>> separated from 'by paying Agora' because otherwise 'paying Agora'
>> doesn't work?
>>
>> A: "paying" is already a by-announcement action by R2166 (Assets).
>> Moreover, CFJ 3557 recently found that the CAN and SHALL imply 'by
>> announcement', so that implication should map onto all three methods in
>> terms of announcing the reason for the payment.
>>
>> Q: But other rules have this compound! What about this:
>> Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending"
>> by announcement by: b) spending the current Pend Cost in shinies
>> and this:
>> b) by announcement, and spending the current CFJ Cost in shinies,
>>
>> A: None of those examples have an "or", real or implied. And
>> "spending" *isn't* a 'by announcement' action on its own, so it needs
>> the support and the strongly-implied 'and'.
>>
>> Q: But can't we read '...by A, by B, or by C' as 'by A and either
>> (by B or by C)'?
>>
>> A: That's a really poor inference from the grammar, and substituting
>> a weakly-implied "and" for a strongly-implied 'or' is a complete
>> reversal of meaning, not a minor grammatical quirk.
>>
>> Q: But the *intent* of the rule is clearly...
>>
>> A: This is Agora - text of the rules, dude.
>>
>>
>> EVIDENCE
>>
>> Rule 2491 ("Estate Auctions")
>> [Note: the most recent SLR/FLR has this rule incorrectly-written due to
>> a copy/past error. I've taken this text from Proposal 7888.]
>>
>>
>> At the start of each month, if Agora owns at least one Estate,
>> the Surveyor CAN, by announcement, and SHALL in a timely
>> fashion, put one Estate which is owned by Agora up for auction.
>> Each auction ends seven days after it begins.
>>
>> During an auction, any player CAN bid a number of Shinies on
>> eir own behalf, by announcement, or on behalf of any
>> Organization for which such a bid is Appropriate, by
>> announcement, provided the bid is higher than any
>> previously-placed bid in the same auction.
>>
>> If, at the end of the auction, there is a single highest bid,
>> then that player or Organization wins the auction. The player
>> who placed the winning bid CAN, and SHALL in a timely fashion,
>> cause Agora to transfer the auctioned Estate to the winner by
>> announcement, by paying Agora the amount of the bid, or by
>> causing the winning Organization to pay Agora the amount of the
>> bid.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
