Owen, I don't think you work for Comcast or Starbucks, so speaking for them as to what they expect is incorrect. I do work for one of them and cannot speak for what they expect.
-Dan Alexander Speaking only for myself and not representing my employer On 7/18/13 11:59 PM, "Owen DeLong" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >Sent from my iPad > >On Jul 18, 2013, at 1:13 AM, William Herrin <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:54 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 5:00 PM, William Herrin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 4:34 PM, William Herrin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> What about Comcast? They're in the business of providing cable >>>>>> television service. They'll also provide you with Internet access on >>>>>> the same coax cable with the modem they rent you. >>>>>> >>>>>> ISP or end-user? >>>>> >>>>> The service is intended to be used to connect customer-owned >>>>> equipment to the internet. As such, they are clearly in the LIR/ISP >>>>>realm. >>>> >>>> Starbucks, Hilton, they have large sections of the operation dedicated >>>> to connecting customer-owned equipment to the Internet. >>> >>> Permit me to rephraseĊ The service (in the case of Comcast) is >>> intended to connect customer-owned networking equipment to the >>> internet (e.g. routers, bridges, etc.). In the case of Starbucks, >>> Hilton, etc., the expectation is that you are connecting a terminal >>> host and not a packet forwarding device. >> >> Huh? Comcast is an ISP because they give you a modem to connect >> between the coax and your ethernet port but Starbucks isn't because >> you connect to a wifi access point instead? >> > >Comcast expects most of their customers to be attaching routers, not >computers to the modem. > >Starbucks does NOT expect you to be associating a router with their wifi. > >I thought I was pretty clear about that above, but perhaps you have >trouble understanding the distinction I am drawing between packet >forwarding equipment and packet terminating hosts. I thought I was clear, >I apologize if I was not. > >>> I think getting into this level of semantic detail is a clear case of >>>reductio ad absurdum. >> >> I'll say it is! > >You went there. > >> The point here is that 21st century networks don't look like the >> dialup+webhost ISP of 1997, nor do they look like the "our employees >> have Netscape and Eudora" end-user of 1997. Attempts to shoehorn 21st >> century networks into those obsolete definitions frankly come up >> looking pretty stupid. > >That doesn't mean that one size fits all, either. > >> What we *do* see is organizations managing IP addresses in several ways: >> >> 1. assigned to organization-owned infrastructure under the control of >> the organization's employees > >End-user. > >> 2. assigned long-term to exclusive use by the organization's customers >>or users > >LIR/ISP in most cases. > >> 3. ephemerally assigned to exclusive use by the organization's >> customers or users > >Could go either way, but most likely LIR/ISP if customers and End-user if >users. > >> 4. reserved for future use > >Not sure what this means in this context, so very hard to make a >meaningful reply. > >> And we see that most organizations do a mix of all of these things, >> not one or the other. > >Actually, I would say that most organizations fit into 1 or 2 pretty >readily most of the time and we are seeing a growing, but still small >number of corner cases that are more difficult to classify. > >Nonetheless, treating all organizations the same would definitely be >either grossly unfair to those in category 1, grossly unfair to those in >category 2, or both IMHO. > >Owen > >_______________________________________________ >PPML >You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
