For clarification - RIPE uses “member of” in its definition of LIR. The thought was to try and bridge between multiple RIR definitions, and clearly show how LIRs are downstream of RIRs and nominally provide equivalent functionality whether or not they provide network connectivity services. Fortunately, it’s a work in progress.
I do agree that “at a local level” is somewhat problematic when looking only from the geographic center. But “local” can mean to a single company diaspora as well – it’s just not *clear* from context that it’s intended to read that way. Looking forward to seeing what the community can come up with. -L Leif Sawyer GCI | he/him | Engineer IV, CNI – Standards and Planning t: 907-351-1535 | w: www.gci.com<https://www.gci.com> | KL5BN From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2026 8:15 AM To: Douglas Camin <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised - Draft Policy ARIN-2025-1: Clarify ISP and LIR Definitions and References to Address Ambiguity in NRPM Text [EXTERNAL EMAIL - CAUTION: Do not open unexpected attachments or links.] On Mar 7, 2026, at 07:34, Douglas Camin <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: +1 to Eric’s change to LIR definition and +1 to Owen’s suggestion to drop “at a local level” from the revision for the reason’s both suggested. So revised would be: "A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that is a member of an RIR which receives allocations of internet numbers from that RIR for allocation to its customers, end-users, and infrastructure. I think member is the wrong term here. Perhaps “client of an RIR", “customer of an RIR", or simply “organization”. Owen -- Douglas J. Camin [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2026 at 10:18 AM To: Eric C. Landgraf <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised - Draft Policy ARIN-2025-1: Clarify ISP and LIR Definitions and References to Address Ambiguity in NRPM Text > On Mar 6, 2026, at 11:07, Eric C. Landgraf > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > On Thu, 05 Mar 2026 12:55:47 -0500 ARIN wrote: >> Section 2: >> >> Rewrite the LIR definition to provide clarity and relationship to ISP >> >> 2.4. Local Internet Registry (LIR) >> >> A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that is a member of an RIR, >> receives allocations of internet numbers from that RIR, for allocation >> to its customers, end-users, and infrastructure, at a local level. >> LIRs include Internet Service Providers (ISPs) whose customers are >> primarily end users and possibly other ISPs. Historically in the ARIN >> service region "ISP" was used as an equivalent, albeit incomplete, >> term. > > The wording of this section is awkward, as the first sentence is > incomplete. I suggest modifying it to read: > "A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that is a member of an RIR > which receives allocations of internet numbers from that RIR for > allocation to its customers, end-users, and infrastructure at a local > level." “At a local level” is an interesting choice of words here given that some LIRs are more global than the RIR they are receiving addresses from. It doesn’t really add meaning to the policy, so I suggest dropping that phrase altogether. > >> 2.18 Internet Service Provider (ISP) >> >> An Internet Service Provider (ISP) is a type of organization that >> provides Internet services to other organizations, its customers, >> and\or individuals other than its employees. Internet services >> include, but are not limited to, connectivity services, web services, >> colocation, dedicated servers, virtual private servers, and virtual >> private networks. > > This should be corrected with "and/or", though in this community "or" > may be sufficient. Disagree. “Include but are not limited to” eliminates the need for “or” since any item is included in the list, but not mandated by the and. Owen > Otherwise, I support this policy. I think this cleans up the PPML > substantially. > > Eric C. 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