Hi Lalisingh, dude, this was a discussion...a mere exchange of thoughts. plz dont view it as an attack. i just gave my take on how two different schools of poetry are, that too, both being favourites to quite many here. So, Relax! Also, i failed to realize that I actually drifted away from ARR centric discussion, when i was writing that. Sorry for that folks. And to be honest, although i love gulzar's poetry in ARR songs, i feel such kind of poetry is more justified in Vishal Bharadwaj's music than in ARR's music (exception being Dil Se). I dont wish to annoy fans here, but it is a purely personal opinion. I dont mean that ARR doesnt justify..I am only saying Vishal justifies an extra measure. and that could be probably because he understands the language more/better than ARR who has recently picked up hindi/Urdu. The bottomline however is, the only lyricists i look up, to team up with ARR e Gulzar and Javed Akhtar. And ofcourse, Prasoon Joshi too.
Regards Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla. http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com --- On Sat, 10/18/08, lalisingh20 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: lalisingh20 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [arr] - Zindagi Zindagi (Gulzarji and Javedji).. to lalisingh To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 9:55 PM Thank you Kamal and thank you Neetika for the translation of Chalka. That is exactly the point I was trying to make. Javed ji or Prasoon Joshi lyrics are simple and very effective, you don't need a dictionry to find out the meaning. Infact Javed ji's lyrics set the mood of the song and already tell you what is happening in the song without watching it. Anyway, I knew critisizing rahman in this group does not go well, but I didn't know critisizing anyone who has worked with him will do the same. I was actually talking about the sell-ability of the song. your average person out there is not going to understand the lyrics or have time to go find the meaning, therefore I was saying it may hurt the popularity of the songs. it's much easier to remember and humm a song if you know the meaning and understand it. Gulzar is a legend, who am I, but I think it hurts RAhmans music if only some elite group of people understand it. Like kaissiom said, it's open to interpretation -based on how much you understand. I like how he translated "do-peher" to "half of life". Even I was thinking why is this guy so depressed about the afternoon? but who knows may be he is depressed about waiting from morning to afternoon. I"m from north india too, i have had good exposure to hindi and also exposure to urdu, so it does help me understand some of gulzars lyrics. I think gulzar tries to be like Mirza Galib, but uses hindi words also. I also love Rahman gulzar combo, it's just I have to listen the song in confusion for some time before I fully understand the meaning of it. I mean who can forget Ae Ajnabi, dil se re, etc. Gulzar is amazing,a legend, he's different, yes, but all I said was he was "overrated" compared to javed sahab and that brought these flood of messages. should Rahman work with Gulzar - absolutely, I would love hear gulzars lyrics in RAhmans private albums, it would give it a different height all together, but for commercial stuff, I would go with javed sahab or Prasoon joshi. If it's gulzar lyrics, the weight heavily lies on Music to carry the lyrics. In case of Javed sahab the weight is somewhat evenly carried by music and lyrics. Dil se was a superhit mostly because it has out of the world music, even if Himesh Reshmaiya had sang Chaiya and Surma Bhopali had written the lyrics for it, it would still be a super hit. May be I should do this in future or Gopal can do this every post that way we know when to attack and when not to: Message: About lyrics not music ARR/non-ARR: Related to ARR but not directly. Positive/Negative: Positive (concerned about the popularity/sell- ability of Rahman's songs) Opinion/Fact: One person's opinion Group attack [yes/no]: No, not required. because it says LYRICS is 'overrated' not MUSIC. --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, "Leslie D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .> wrote: > > Although slightly off topic for a ARR group, this is the best post I have > seen in ages.. Very well said .. Exactly what I felt like but to be true, I > would have never been able to write it so beautifully. Great Job .. Thanks > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla < > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..> wrote: > > > Dear Lalisingh, > > > > i beg to differ. Gulzar is a very, very different lyricist. he is special, > > because he uses words, different words for sure, to give a different > > sensibility. and more importantly, he is probably the only lyricist who is > > fascinated by and who emphasizes on the sound of the words. his poetry is > > something which involves aesthetic imaginatin rather than pure word > > meanings. Like if he writes "Saansein Uljhi hui hain", it doesnt mean that > > someone is having breathing problems..it is more indepth...in the sense that > > the 'vitality of survival seems to be disturbed'. I agree that the lyrics > > are not as direct as other lyricists, but then thats a different style he > > has got, which no one else has got. he has got his own grammar, > > sensibilities etc. like he uses 'Chulha' to weave an aura of 'earthiess' and > > prefers that over the usual 'Rasoi'. ofcourse literal imagination of Stove, > > kills that earthiness. > > > > With due respects to Javed Akhar (who is my another favourite), i find his > > lyrics are top class for sure, flowery, feel-good, nice, direct. No qualms > > about it, for they reach the common man for sure. They dont lack anything. > > but there has been a lineage for his brand of poetry (his father Jan Nisar > > Akhtar or his father-in-law Kaifi Azami). I dont mean to take credit away > > from him, but the 'lehaaz' or the 'tehezeeb' or the grammar of his > > language has comeo him as a legacy and he is successfully carrying it > > forward. but Gulzar, on the otherhand , developed his own inimitable style > > of poetry, usage of words, grammar, sensibility, not only in urdu, but in > > pure Hindi also. Gulzar's lines are little esoteric, a bit > > thought-provoking. It depends on individual taste anyways. Like there are > > two ways of looking at "Chaiiyya Chaiya" lyrics. Are they commonly > > understood lines? No.. So we can find fault... But did they make you curious > > to know their meanings? For me, YES ..i searched for every > > meaning..word- by-word and the song's beauty manifested in more sublimal > > realm. It works for me. > > > > One of my fav line of Gulzar: Raqs karthi hai Shab bhar, meri tanhaayee > > hain.. (from a non-ARR song). > > > > Firstly, i liked the sound of the words Raqs and Shab. if you are curious > > enough, plz look into their meanings and let me know if you liked that line. > > > > To give a very loose generic analogy, Javed Akhtar's lines are like > > Ashutosh Gowariker films..Simple. ..Very good..honest. . and Gulzar's lines > > are like Maniratnam films.. a bit more aesthetic, thought-provoking, > > sensitive. Now i dont know if it is coincidence or my exactness in analogy, > > that Ashutosh vibes well with Javed Akhtar and Maniratnam with Gulzar. . > > > > As i said, it is matter of one's sensibilities and the kind of poetry one > > likes. Both are geniuses in their own way. > > Regards > > *Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla. * > > ** > > *http://kamal- aakarsh.blogspot .com * > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 10/18/08, Pravinder Sheoran <pravindersheoran@ ...>*wrote: > > > > From: Pravinder Sheoran <pravindersheoran@ ...> > > Subject: [arr] Re: [Translation] - Zindagi Zindagi > > To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 2:18 PM > > > > Does not matter how many reasons you give man, > > Gulzar is the best lyricist we have in Indian film industry. > > > > Why don't you listen the following: > > Saathiya, > > Satarangi re, > > Mera yaar milade saaiyan > > > > and many more. > > > > Pravinder. > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com <arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups. com>, > > "lalisingh20" <lalisingh20@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > OK my sense of poetry is overrated. Could u please explain the poetry > > > behind these lyrics below, it makes no sense to me at all: > > > > > > Chalka Chalka Re from Saathiya: > > > > > > "gaeyaa meree pyaasee rah gayee > > > tulasee vaalee vaadee rah gayee > > > chuulhaa main jalaatee rah gayee" > > > > > > As far as I can understand it says > > > "My cow remained thirsty > > > the valley of tulasi remained > > > I kept burning the stove" > > > > > > Now, someone please explain how these genius of lyrics are supposed to > > > describe the joy of a girl who is engaged and about to get married. > > > > > > I don't even understand tamil and I prefer listening to Yaro Yarodi > > > than listening to the Chalka chalka one because it makes no damn > > > sense. Better to listen to something that you don't understand than > > > listen to something that makes no sense. > > > > > > I'm nobody to doubt Gulzars lyrics, but honestly Javed Akthar write > > > simple yet elegant lyrics, and to the point. Gulzar write these > > > metaphors that only he can understand. Like i mentioned gulzars lyrix > > > are fancy because the plugs in hindi/urdu/farsi words. Since most > > > people dont' understand it they think it must be class. Also, did you > > > know that Chaiya chiaya from dilse is actually a punjabi folk song > > > with punjabi lyrics. Alot of people said rahman copied the music, but > > > in reality they were talking about the lyrics. Gulzar simply turned > > > the punjabi lyrics into hindi/ urdu lyrics. > > > > > > I think most people would agree that best Hindi lyrical quality for > > > RAhman comes from Javed Akthr and then Prasson Joshi and then maybe > > > Mehboob. Every time Rahman teams up with Gulzar, I'm hesitant and I > > > hope he does a good job. Tere bina in Guru was reaaly realy good, but > > > what about barso re, yammo, does it make sense? But notice gulzar also > > > happnes to churn out good lyrics for his friends like vishal bhardwaj. > > > > > > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com <arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups. com>, > > Gomzy <gomtesh.upadhye@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Gulzar isnt overrated mate. Your sense of poetry is. :P > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Siraj K <cutesiraj@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks much, buddy.. Very nice translation indeed. > > > > > > > > > > -Siraj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 9:42 PM, lalisingh20 <lalisingh20@ >wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Thanx a lot for the trans. kaissiom you did a very good job. you > > > > >> should do more songs. And yes, i think gulzar is overrated, a > > lot of > > > > >> time it makes no sense what he writes. Epecially when he mixes up > > > > >> hindi, urdu and farsi. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com<arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups. com> > > <arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > >> "kaissiom" <kaissiom@> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Hi Guys, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Here's my attempt at translating Zindagi. I have not checked > > > out the > > > > >> > rest of the album yet. This song is on 'repeat' and I'm unable > > > to skip > > > > >> > it as of yet. [:D] The lyrics and underlying beats are > > > reminiscent of > > > > >> > > > > >> > Zindagi from Meenaxi, albeit a little faster. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > * As the lyrics happen to be by Gulzar, it's needless to say > > > that they > > > > >> > are open to interpretation. Remember "Naram naram ujlaa > > dhuan" from > > > > >> > Saathiya? So, please forgive me if the translation doesn't > > fit your > > > > >> > interpretation. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Here goes: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein... > > > > >> > -[Corner of the eye...] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > >> > Tu kahan kho gayi? > > > > >> > -[Where did you get lost?] > > > > >> > Tu kahan kho gayi? > > > > >> > -[Where did you get lost?] > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > >> > -[Nobody came!] > > > > >> > Do-peher ho gayi > > > > >> > -[Half of the day(life) has passed] > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > >> > -[And nobody came!] > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Din aaye, din jaaye > > > > >> > -[Days come, days go] > > > > >> > Sadiyaan bhi gin aaye > > > > >> > -[Eons have goneby counting] > > > > >> > Sadiyaan re... > > > > >> > -[Eons...] > > > > >> > Tanhayee lipti hai... > > > > >> > -[Engulfed in loneliness.. .] > > > > >> > Lipti hai saansoun ki > > > > >> > -[Engulfed in the loneliness of breathing] > > > > >> > Rasiya re... > > > > >> > -[O dear one (lover)...] > > > > >> > Tere bina badi pyasi hai > > > > >> > -[Without you, they're very thirsty] > > > > >> > Tere bina hai pyasi re > > > > >> > -[Without you, they're thirsty] > > > > >> > Nainoun ki do saakhiyan re > > > > >> > -[The two; pair of eyes] > > > > >> > Tanha re... > > > > >> > -[Lonely...] > > > > >> > Main tanha re > > > > >> > -[I am lonely] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Subah ka kohra hai > > > > >> > -[There is the fog of morning] > > > > >> > Sham ki dhool hai > > > > >> > -[There is the dust of evening] > > > > >> > Tanhayee hai > > > > >> > -[There is the loneliness] > > > > >> > Raat bhi sard hai > > > > >> > -[The night is also cold] > > > > >> > Dard hi dard hai > > > > >> > -[There is the continuous pain] > > > > >> > Ruswayee hai > > > > >> > -[There is the separation/humiliat ion] > > > > >> > Kaise katein? > > > > >> > -[How will this pass?] > > > > >> > Saansein uljhi hain > > > > >> > -[Breathing is complicated] > > > > >> > Raatein badi jhulsi jhulsi hain > > > > >> > -[The nights are very slow] > > > > >> > Naina, kori sadiyaan re > > > > >> > -[Eyes- empty for eons] > > > > >> > Tanha re... > > > > >> > -[Lonely...] > > > > >> > Main tanha re > > > > >> > -[I am lonely] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > >> > Tu kahan kho gayi? > > > > >> > -[Where did you get lost?] > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > >> > -[Nobody came!] > > > > >> > Do-peher ho gayi > > > > >> > -[Half of the day(life) has passed)] > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > >> > -[And nobody came!] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > regards, > > > > >> > Waism. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail. yahoo.com > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
