On 10/19/2008 12:31 PM India Time, _Gomzy_ wrote: > I am surprised with your comments below. Initially you just said that > Gulzar's poetry is senseless. > And now all the explanation. You do see that Javed Akhtar is being > crticised here right? > Hasnt he worked with ARR now? Infact more than anyone i guess.
Even the great Vairamuthu got criticized in this list when he gave bad lyrics. :-) :-) :-) (running away to shelter) -- Rawat > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 9:55 PM, lalisingh20 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > Thank you Kamal and thank you Neetika for the translation of Chalka. > That is exactly the point I was trying to make. Javed ji or Prasoon > Joshi lyrics are simple and very effective, you don't need a dictionry > to find out the meaning. Infact Javed ji's lyrics set the mood of the > song and already tell you what is happening in the song without > watching it. > > Anyway, I knew critisizing rahman in this group does not go well, but > I didn't know critisizing anyone who has worked with him will do the > same. I was actually talking about the sell-ability of the song. > your average person out there is not going to understand the lyrics or > have time to go find the meaning, therefore I was saying it may hurt > the popularity of the songs. it's much easier to remember and humm a > song if you know the meaning and understand it. Gulzar is a legend, > who am I, but I think it hurts RAhmans music if only some elite group > of people understand it. Like kaissiom said, it's open to > interpretation -based on how much you understand. I like how he > translated "do-peher" to "half of life". Even I was thinking why is > this guy so depressed about the afternoon? but who knows may be he is > depressed about waiting from morning to afternoon. > > I"m from north india too, i have had good exposure to hindi and also > exposure to urdu, so it does help me understand some of gulzars > lyrics. I think gulzar tries to be like Mirza Galib, but uses hindi > words also. I also love Rahman gulzar combo, it's just I have to > listen the song in confusion for some time before I fully understand > the meaning of it. I mean who can forget Ae Ajnabi, dil se re, etc. > Gulzar is amazing,a legend, he's different, yes, but all I said was he > was "overrated" compared to javed sahab and that brought these flood > of messages. should Rahman work with Gulzar - absolutely, I would > love hear gulzars lyrics in RAhmans private albums, it would give it a > different height all together, but for commercial stuff, I would go > with javed sahab or Prasoon joshi. If it's gulzar lyrics, the weight > heavily lies on Music to carry the lyrics. In case of Javed sahab the > weight is somewhat evenly carried by music and lyrics. Dil se was a > superhit mostly because it has out of the world music, even if Himesh > Reshmaiya had sang Chaiya and Surma Bhopali had written the lyrics for > it, it would still be a super hit. > > May be I should do this in future or Gopal can do this every post that > way we know when to attack and when not to: > > Message: About lyrics not music > ARR/non-ARR: Related to ARR but not directly. > Positive/Negative: Positive (concerned about the > popularity/sell-ability of Rahman's songs) > Opinion/Fact: One person's opinion > Group attack [yes/no]: No, not required. because it says LYRICS is > 'overrated' not MUSIC. > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com>, "Leslie D" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Although slightly off topic for a ARR group, this is the best post I > have > > seen in ages.. Very well said .. Exactly what I felt like but to be > true, I > > would have never been able to write it so beautifully. Great Job .. > Thanks > > > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Dear Lalisingh, > > > > > > i beg to differ. Gulzar is a very, very different lyricist. he is > special, > > > because he uses words, different words for sure, to give a > different > > > sensibility. and more importantly, he is probably the only > lyricist who is > > > fascinated by and who emphasizes on the sound of the words. his > poetry is > > > something which involves aesthetic imaginatin rather than pure word > > > meanings. Like if he writes "Saansein Uljhi hui hain", it doesnt > mean that > > > someone is having breathing problems..it is more indepth...in the > sense that > > > the 'vitality of survival seems to be disturbed'. I agree that the > lyrics > > > are not as direct as other lyricists, but then thats a different > style he > > > has got, which no one else has got. he has got his own grammar, > > > sensibilities etc. like he uses 'Chulha' to weave an aura of > 'earthiess' and > > > prefers that over the usual 'Rasoi'. ofcourse literal imagination > of Stove, > > > kills that earthiness. > > > > > > With due respects to Javed Akhar (who is my another favourite), i > find his > > > lyrics are top class for sure, flowery, feel-good, nice, direct. > No qualms > > > about it, for they reach the common man for sure. They dont lack > anything. > > > but there has been a lineage for his brand of poetry (his father > Jan Nisar > > > Akhtar or his father-in-law Kaifi Azami). I dont mean to take > credit away > > > from him, but the 'lehaaz' or the 'tehezeeb' or the grammar of his > > > language has comeo him as a legacy and he is successfully > carrying it > > > forward. but Gulzar, on the otherhand , developed his own > inimitable style > > > of poetry, usage of words, grammar, sensibility, not only in urdu, > but in > > > pure Hindi also. Gulzar's lines are little esoteric, a bit > > > thought-provoking. It depends on individual taste anyways. Like > there are > > > two ways of looking at "Chaiiyya Chaiya" lyrics. Are they commonly > > > understood lines? No.. So we can find fault... But did they make > you curious > > > to know their meanings? For me, YES ..i searched for every > > > meaning..word-by-word and the song's beauty manifested in more > sublimal > > > realm. It works for me. > > > > > > One of my fav line of Gulzar: Raqs karthi hai Shab bhar, meri > tanhaayee > > > hain.. (from a non-ARR song). > > > > > > Firstly, i liked the sound of the words Raqs and Shab. if you are > curious > > > enough, plz look into their meanings and let me know if you liked > that line. > > > > > > To give a very loose generic analogy, Javed Akhtar's lines are like > > > Ashutosh Gowariker films..Simple...Very good..honest.. and > Gulzar's lines > > > are like Maniratnam films.. a bit more aesthetic, > thought-provoking, > > > sensitive. Now i dont know if it is coincidence or my exactness > in analogy, > > > that Ashutosh vibes well with Javed Akhtar and Maniratnam with > Gulzar. . > > > > > > As i said, it is matter of one's sensibilities and the kind of > poetry one > > > likes. Both are geniuses in their own way. > > > Regards > > > *Kamal Aakarsh Vishnubhotla.* > > > ** > > > *http://kamal-aakarsh.blogspot.com * > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Sat, 10/18/08, Pravinder Sheoran > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*wrote: > > > > > > From: Pravinder Sheoran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Subject: [arr] Re: [Translation] - Zindagi Zindagi > > > To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com> > > > Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 2:18 PM > > > > > > Does not matter how many reasons you give man, > > > Gulzar is the best lyricist we have in Indian film industry. > > > > > > Why don't you listen the following: > > > Saathiya, > > > Satarangi re, > > > Mera yaar milade saaiyan > > > > > > and many more. > > > > > > Pravinder. > > > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com > <arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com <http://40yahoogroups.com>>, > > > > "lalisingh20" <lalisingh20@ ...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > OK my sense of poetry is overrated. Could u please explain the > poetry > > > > behind these lyrics below, it makes no sense to me at all: > > > > > > > > Chalka Chalka Re from Saathiya: > > > > > > > > "gaeyaa meree pyaasee rah gayee > > > > tulasee vaalee vaadee rah gayee > > > > chuulhaa main jalaatee rah gayee" > > > > > > > > As far as I can understand it says > > > > "My cow remained thirsty > > > > the valley of tulasi remained > > > > I kept burning the stove" > > > > > > > > Now, someone please explain how these genius of lyrics are > supposed to > > > > describe the joy of a girl who is engaged and about to get > married. > > > > > > > > I don't even understand tamil and I prefer listening to Yaro > Yarodi > > > > than listening to the Chalka chalka one because it makes no damn > > > > sense. Better to listen to something that you don't > understand than > > > > listen to something that makes no sense. > > > > > > > > I'm nobody to doubt Gulzars lyrics, but honestly Javed Akthar > write > > > > simple yet elegant lyrics, and to the point. Gulzar write these > > > > metaphors that only he can understand. Like i mentioned gulzars > lyrix > > > > are fancy because the plugs in hindi/urdu/farsi words. Since most > > > > people dont' understand it they think it must be class. Also, > did you > > > > know that Chaiya chiaya from dilse is actually a punjabi folk > song > > > > with punjabi lyrics. Alot of people said rahman copied the > music, but > > > > in reality they were talking about the lyrics. Gulzar simply > turned > > > > the punjabi lyrics into hindi/ urdu lyrics. > > > > > > > > I think most people would agree that best Hindi lyrical > quality for > > > > RAhman comes from Javed Akthr and then Prasson Joshi and then > maybe > > > > Mehboob. Every time Rahman teams up with Gulzar, I'm hesitant > and I > > > > hope he does a good job. Tere bina in Guru was reaaly realy > good, but > > > > what about barso re, yammo, does it make sense? But notice > gulzar also > > > > happnes to churn out good lyrics for his friends like vishal > bhardwaj. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com > <arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com <http://40yahoogroups.com>>, > > > > Gomzy <gomtesh.upadhye@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Gulzar isnt overrated mate. Your sense of poetry is. :P > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 4:35 AM, Siraj K <cutesiraj@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks much, buddy.. Very nice translation indeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Siraj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 9:42 PM, lalisingh20 <lalisingh20@ > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thanx a lot for the trans. kaissiom you did a very good > job. you > > > > > >> should do more songs. And yes, i think gulzar is > overrated, a > > > lot of > > > > > >> time it makes no sense what he writes. Epecially when he > mixes up > > > > > >> hindi, urdu and farsi. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. > com<arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com <http://40yahoogroups.com>> > > > <arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups. com>, > > > > > >> "kaissiom" <kaissiom@> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Hi Guys, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Here's my attempt at translating Zindagi. I have not > checked > > > > out the > > > > > >> > rest of the album yet. This song is on 'repeat' and I'm > unable > > > > to skip > > > > > >> > it as of yet. [:D] The lyrics and underlying beats are > > > > reminiscent of > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zindagi from Meenaxi, albeit a little faster. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > * As the lyrics happen to be by Gulzar, it's needless > to say > > > > that they > > > > > >> > are open to interpretation. Remember "Naram naram ujlaa > > > dhuan" from > > > > > >> > Saathiya? So, please forgive me if the translation doesn't > > > fit your > > > > > >> > interpretation. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Here goes: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein... > > > > > >> > -[Corner of the eye...] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > > >> > Tu kahan kho gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Where did you get lost?] > > > > > >> > Tu kahan kho gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Where did you get lost?] > > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > > >> > -[Nobody came!] > > > > > >> > Do-peher ho gayi > > > > > >> > -[Half of the day(life) has passed] > > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > > >> > -[And nobody came!] > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Din aaye, din jaaye > > > > > >> > -[Days come, days go] > > > > > >> > Sadiyaan bhi gin aaye > > > > > >> > -[Eons have goneby counting] > > > > > >> > Sadiyaan re... > > > > > >> > -[Eons...] > > > > > >> > Tanhayee lipti hai... > > > > > >> > -[Engulfed in loneliness.. .] > > > > > >> > Lipti hai saansoun ki > > > > > >> > -[Engulfed in the loneliness of breathing] > > > > > >> > Rasiya re... > > > > > >> > -[O dear one (lover)...] > > > > > >> > Tere bina badi pyasi hai > > > > > >> > -[Without you, they're very thirsty] > > > > > >> > Tere bina hai pyasi re > > > > > >> > -[Without you, they're thirsty] > > > > > >> > Nainoun ki do saakhiyan re > > > > > >> > -[The two; pair of eyes] > > > > > >> > Tanha re... > > > > > >> > -[Lonely...] > > > > > >> > Main tanha re > > > > > >> > -[I am lonely] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Subah ka kohra hai > > > > > >> > -[There is the fog of morning] > > > > > >> > Sham ki dhool hai > > > > > >> > -[There is the dust of evening] > > > > > >> > Tanhayee hai > > > > > >> > -[There is the loneliness] > > > > > >> > Raat bhi sard hai > > > > > >> > -[The night is also cold] > > > > > >> > Dard hi dard hai > > > > > >> > -[There is the continuous pain] > > > > > >> > Ruswayee hai > > > > > >> > -[There is the separation/humiliat ion] > > > > > >> > Kaise katein? > > > > > >> > -[How will this pass?] > > > > > >> > Saansein uljhi hain > > > > > >> > -[Breathing is complicated] > > > > > >> > Raatein badi jhulsi jhulsi hain > > > > > >> > -[The nights are very slow] > > > > > >> > Naina, kori sadiyaan re > > > > > >> > -[Eyes- empty for eons] > > > > > >> > Tanha re... > > > > > >> > -[Lonely...] > > > > > >> > Main tanha re > > > > > >> > -[I am lonely] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > > >> > Tu kahan kho gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Where did you get lost?] > > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > > >> > -[Nobody came!] > > > > > >> > Do-peher ho gayi > > > > > >> > -[Half of the day(life) has passed)] > > > > > >> > Koi aaya nahin > > > > > >> > -[And nobody came!] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Zindagi Zindagi, kya kami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Life O' Life, what is missing?] > > > > > >> > Aankh ki kor mein, kyon nami reh gayi? > > > > > >> > -[Why is the corner of the eye moist?] > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > regards, > > > > > >> > Waism.
