Rawat... Don't meant to create a debate..but after watching both Raavan and Raavanan, I want to try to share my interpretation of some specifics you had talked about.
> and now my fav, Kata Kata. Actually, I couldn't place the chronology > ...... > ........ > > In ramayan, it was surpnakha trying to seduce lakshan first and then > ram, and she was dumb enough not to take their soft hints that they > don't want to do it, so she gets angree, tries to hurt seeta, that > ....... > such an ugly manner, shooting among the vast crowd of children and > females, and further arranges that this surpnakha was the only one > ..... > .... All your above questions are exactly what Mani wants you to view & ask more objectively. Firstly, if you watched the movie thinking it is an adaptation of Ramayan as told by Valmiki, then I guess I understand why you hate this movie so much. And I think there lies your dilemma in analyzing the movie...:) Who are we to label Surpanakha & her so-called Rakshas culture as uncouth? Just because Valmiki tells the story to us from Ram's perspective does not mean Raavan & his culture is all despicable as you have put it...There is always another side to every narration. And if you can't digest the fact that there could be a human side to the so-called Rakshas, then Mani can't get you on the same platform he has laid for us. Period. Having said that, you have raised some valid questions about other aspects of the movie, specially on the narrative style. I have to confess that I actually felt that the script was losing its pace and had many loose ends, when I saw it the first time but had more appreciation for the style the second time around. It is deliberate on Mani's part not to let his audience look at the series of incidents told in the movie through one character's POV alone. We are so used to our standard Indian movie template, with a protagonist who is normally a "good" guy, who has a lover..who then encounters a "villain" who is a "bad" guy..etc. etc... What Mani questions is the very premise of this template. Good can be Bad and Bad can be Good depending on the circumstances..and who is looking at it. Mani also questions the very idea of judging people and labeling them as "good" and "bad" ..Although not said in so many words in the movie but only implied, You can apply that to the current Maoism/Naxal issue or the Tamil Eelam issue or other fundamentalist terrorism issues that many countries are facing in this day and age. And the scene where Aishwarya prays to that deity in water pretty much summarizes the movie... I agree with you on Behne De & the timing of it in the movie..But I thought the song was picturized brilliantly. If you keep the deep meaning behind Behne De aside for a while and just look at it as a song placed in a story to highlight the turning point in Beera's view of Ragini & the situation they are in, then it makes perfect sense..But the words/lyrics make you believe that it is a little premature for the character Beera to have such deep thoughts at that stage of the movie. Thok De Killi was one song I was a little concerned about before watching the movie..but Mani convinced me and I think he has done complete justice to the song. Kata Kata is awesome in one word. This is classic Mani Rathnam..so many subtle emotions..and playfulness. Abhishek could be the weak link of the movie..(in the Hindi version)..But Vikram delivered a knock-out performance in the Tamil version. And it is just amazing how negative publicity can easily kill a movie within 2 days thanks to the digital age we live in! And to imagine how disheartening it would be to the cast/crew to be "judged" by us in a merciless way in 2+ hours...for the hard work they did for 2+ years..Hmmm!! -Ganpy. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat <vsra...@...> wrote: > > On 6/19/2010 8:42 AM India Time, _Gopal Srinivasan_ wrote: > > > Surprisingly, AR Rahman delivers his most uninspired score in years, > > which probably explains why Ratnam wasn't inspired enough to shoot his > > songs as innovatively as he usually does. > > Another example of a critic putting the blame on wrong head. > > ARR's music is good, but if songs get used poorly, that is not ARR's, > but the director's fault. > > SPOILERS ALERTS > > ARR's music appears misfit in the film, if that is what the reviewer > meant, I agree with him. But the blame is on poor script of the film > leading to a lack of confusion from the side of director that he > didn't portray the characters with a certainty. In a wish to show > changes of hearts, Mani has made a khichdi of characters and their > personality traits, and that made the great purpose lyrics of Gulzar, > thereby the music, become misfit. > > the characterisation of Beera is not shown such that he is not showing > any class consciousness, not doing anything good for people or masses > as such. All those long exchanges trying to prove that beera has 10 > heads like ravan, meaning 10 personalities, fail to convince the > viewers because we don't see beera doing things in tune with those 10 > heads. His avenging his sister by torturing and be-arm-ing the > runaway-groom is personal vandetta. surprising, when the to be groom > gatecrashes the to be bride's house while marriage is going on, didn't > you all notice all that exchange about cutting the hand that has > touched beera's sister? then, what great new thing beera does by > chopping the hand later on, when he could have cut the hand right > there, so was his il-reputation? > > Does anyone remember Dayawan by FirozKhan, based on that smuggler's > life? remember the scenes when Vinod KHanna was shown literally > helping people in any many ways, and people crowding him, swarming > him, singing praises for him. I think that was the proper display of a > man of the "mass". Mani, in ravan, failed to depict that. > > And that's why Beera as well as thok de killi, along with their > depictions of 10 faces of beera, and along with "door hai dilli" "not > getting what we deserve, getting only crumbs", "chheen ke le le apna > hissa", all seems falsehoods and lies just because the visuals don't > leave any such impression on the viewers. > > Thok de Killi is one of the rare songs so superbly penned by Gulzar > saab, because you all know that gulzar is a man of emotional feelings > of heart, and is not a person for thinking brain, Gulzar has never > written "social issue" lyrics earlier, the way Sahir used to write, > and here, when gulzar does debut as social issue lyricist and ARR > gives appropriate music for that, it is mani that failed to make that > greatness of lyrics and music get reflected in the film on account of > poor script. > > khili rey, was a personal song, that was shot ok with nice steps shown > by Aish, the song in the film didn't touch the heart of viewers the > way Humse Hai Muqabla's small singing pieces had done. Firstly, this > song had been shown in the running, whereas the song clearly hints a > reaction, response of blossoming of a lady on her first encounter with > a male, but the film shows all the long vocal bed scenes of Aish and > Dev before that. The scene had so unimaginative boring dialoge that > that was more of a comedy effect instead of the melting of the lady - > the way it was superbly shown in Roza when the anger of the lady leads > to ess oh aar aar wye sorry. so, again, nobody remembers after a few > seconds of the end of this sweet lovely song, that such a song has > been there. Utter wastage by Mani. > > And Raanjha. What a superb film version. An entirely new thing, new > concept, new style. What an effect that song created on listening and > seeing in the visuals. great picturisation. > > but, again, the song is talking about a girl and guy falling in love > with each other, whereas the film never shows Aish feeling love > towards Beera, it was one sided sexual desire in the body of Beera > towards aish. So, neither Beera was in love as such towards Aish (he > just desired her physically) so he was not at par with platonic love > of Raanjha, and Aish was no way in love with Beera or felt anything > but hatred towards him, so Aish was outright not Heer. And that's why > this song failed to convince viewers. An absolutely misfit song. > > the same goes with Behne de, such a lovely song, people are talking > about its great picturization, but it is unconvincing to me. Remember > Dil Se, the way Manisha keeps on manipulating Shahrukh, and Sharukh > getting dragged towards her, well, i think something like that > scenario was fit for behne de. but here there was no background, no > build up, neither this 11th head of beera that loves a lady was ever > shown, and no private exchanges happened between Beera and aish that > would have broken through beera's rustic shell and would have gone > into his heart. All that fearlessness of Aish I am not convinced of, > as while she sees eyes to eyes with beera and talks openly, she still > keeps on murmering "i don't want to die". that dialoge is a misfit for > the personality of Aish and that again leaves viewers convinced. She > doesn't want to die, then why does she jump all the way down the fall > that would have killed her? why didn't make any attempt on Beera's > life before ending her own? So, when beera appreciates the false > fearlessness of aish, it sounded false, and thus beera falling in love > towards aish "on this pretest" became a falsehood, and the song Behne > de went dud. Killing this song is the deadliest sin of Mani that he > can't be ever forgiven. > > and now my fav, Kata Kata. Actually, I couldn't place the chronology > (timing) of the song in the turn of events in the film. It was > probably the first incident in the chronology script, the film > originated and proceeded from this scene. in his desire to draw > inspiration from ramayan, Mani went ahead drawing parallel between > Surpnakha's mockery and disfigurement leading to Surpnakha's bro ravan > kidnaping seeta, Mani failed to understand and adapt the basic ethics > of Ramayan, that it was a clash of rakshas culture in which any male > or female can meet, talk, date, have sex with anyone he/she wishes, > versus the rama's culture of chastity virginity and monogamy. > > In ramayan, it was surpnakha trying to seduce lakshan first and then > ram, and she was dumb enough not to take their soft hints that they > don't want to do it, so she gets angree, tries to hurt seeta, that > leads bros disfiguring her. > > But the movie's Surpnakha suffered from being portrayed good. She was > ideal sister of hindi films, and movie's ram, dev, unprovked shatters > her life by spoiling her marriage, its background was never shown why > and how Dev would go to such extreme, when he himself is a loving > happily married husband, that she breaks in to the marriage ritual in > such an ugly manner, shooting among the vast crowd of children and > females, and further arranges that this surpnakha was the only one > taken to police thana or somewhere where policemen rape her overnight. > > ye to hajmola lene ke baad bhi hajam nahi hua. If this was Dev, he was > never ram to begin with. It became one of the dozens of person > vandetta films that senior bachchan had played so well, and it went > poles apart from ramayan. > > And while the viewer was confused realizing all these cause and > effect, consequences, chronology of events and re-judging whom to put > blame on, kata kata song happens. We were not ready for it. There were > massive script transformation was taking place that we need to > understand to appreciate the film, and we were shocked as our Mani's > Ram being actually a ravan to begin with, and song came and went and > we wished that it gets over soon so that the film can go on. the > things described above happened after the song, but those were such a > drastic about turn in the film that we quickly forgot the song and > continued understanding the climax. > -- > > It is the foolishness of Mani that is reflected everywhere in the > film, and thus, Mani so systematically lets down a lovely work by ARR > and Gulzar. > > -- > Rawat >
