This would just be fantastic. It would bring version control to a new level! Terje
________________________________ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) on behalf of Jarl Grøneng Sent: Wed 16/03/2011 07:37 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 -- Really a note about overlays Looking forward to the version where we can have several overlays :-) Then each version og patch is just an overlay from the previous overlay.... -- J 2011/3/16 John Sundberg <john.sundb...@kineticdata.com>: > Doug -- thanks, > > I have visions of where this feature can go -- and I think it is awesome. > > For example -- I possibly could "shard off" my "customizations" and send them > to BMC for support. > > Also -- I could "shard off my "customizations" -- .zip it -- and share with > BMC community. (Stuff like re-opening a closed change (UGGGGGG)) > > The possibilities are great. Actually - opens a "new world" of collaboration > within the BMC world. > > Stuff like that -- should get a new version number -- and some major drum > beating by the marketing group. > (because -- it is powerful -- it is differentiating -- and it is saving > companies time/money/pain) > > So -- great work to roll-out the feature. > > > Just was surprising that it gets slipped into the "ether" of 7.6.4 -- as I > think it is worthy of standing on the tallest building and yelling "I have > overlays" !!! > (A little fun is always OK) > > > > > -John > > > On Mar 16, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Mueller, Doug wrote: > > John, > > 1) I don't disagree that Overlays is a significant feature. > > 2) I don't disagree that the version numbering scheme is not reflecting the > significance of the new capability. It is indeed a major feature and > capability. > > > As for not seeing how it works until the next major app release... not really > true. We have customers who are already converting their existing > customizations into using overlays -- using assistance from tools like BPCU to > automate most if not all of the work. > > So, there are customers getting value today in better understanding their > environment and the level of change they have made in it. Who are able to > clean things and to set up for future change. > > Will the big upgrade savings aspect to see that the upgrade process is cleaner > and that customizations -- especially to things like layouts and such -- are > handled much better need to wait until the next app release. Sure. > > On the other hand, it is much better that you can get the overlay feature in, > and get some experience with it and be prepared in advance with some time > rather than trying to get it in, learn it, trust it, AND upgrade the app all > at > the same time.... > > > About the version numbering..... > > I am not in charge of that. I have no say in that. There are reasons around > synchronizing product releases and new conventions for coordination that are > simply longer than possible to type into a message without blowing out all > limit restrictions of email that can be posted to ARSlist. > > So, we have the number we have. Still better to move forward with the feature > at this time than to wait for the next release that has a "better" release > number. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Sundberg > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:04 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 -- Really a note about overlays > > Doug, > > Overlays seem awesome. > > However -- such an improvement seems like it justifies a different version > number. > > 7.6.4 -- suggests to the vast majority of people "a little change" as in > "patch". > > > Overlays is a huge architectural change in ARS - so much so -- that it was > "shelved for later" -- as it was too big to not get correct. > (My opinion -- overlays is one of the biggest changes to the core system - > ever, the next biggest thing is "trim fields" -- but that was >10 years ago) > (BTW - I consider mid-tier a client) > > To follow that. > > I think it should have been something like 8.0 -- which sort of warns people > "to be careful". > > The "big thing" with overlays is -- we don't really know it works or not -- > until BMC releases the "next version" of their apps. -- And then -- we all > find out if the grand plan works or not. > > Of course -- maybe there will not be a "next version" since 7.6.4 has "Best > practices" -- kinda hard to improve of "Best practices". ;) > Of course -- you could do what my kids do and create "Bestest practices" -- > and then "Bestester" etc... > > > -John > > > > > On Mar 10, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Mueller, Doug wrote: > > Tauf, > > First, I am not sure where the statement "introduces so much new workflow" > comes > from. There is NO new workflow introduced by this feature at all. > > If you do not modify anything, there is nothing at all present in the > "overlay". > > If you change one definition, there is ONE definition in the overlay (and so > on) > > No matter how carefully you document changes, no matter how particular you are > about following best practices, it is difficult to have everything you have > changed and everything you have added (and know the difference). It is > difficult to understand that the original definition is on things you have > changed. It is difficult during upgrade to preserve your changes -- > especially to things that you MUST change on the definition and there is no > way to have a parallel definition (like table field properties or view layouts > or the like). > > What the overlay feature does is to simply allow you to do the following: > > 1) Add new items that are identified as custom items you have added. They are > flagged as custom items in the displays. You can easily sort by and get a > list of custom items. And it is COMPLETE. You don't have to worry if you > are missing one or if you forgot about something you added. > 2) Update existing items by leaving the original definition there and updating > a copy of that definition with your changes. > a) all the benefits of #1 are present AND your changes have the exact same > name/identification as the original > b) you can at any time see your version vs. the original to see exactly what > has changed from out of the box > c) Not have to deal with "ripple changes". By this I mean that if in the > past you copied a filter to a new name (to avoid overwrite at upgrade), > you had to copy any guide that included it and then any workflow that > called the guide to use the new name. The fact that the items are the > SAME ITEM means that there is no need to change other things. > d) When an upgrade occurs, the definitions in the base layer are changed but > NOTHING about the items you have overlaid (or added custom) are changed. > So, your changes are not overwritten. In fact, your changes continue to > be the overlay and continue to sit on top of and override the definition > that was newly imported with the same name/id. > e) After the upgrade, you can again compare your overlay with the new out of > the box definition to see if there is anything that should change. Maybe > the out of the box does the right thing now and you should remove your > overlay or maybe there is an extended set of actions and you need to pick > up one or more of the new actions in your overlay. > > > The key is that it provides an automatic and inherent layer that is YOUR layer > that sits over the out of the box definition and allows you to safely, > clearly, > and cleanly adjust or augment the defintions if needed for your environment. > > This is a feature that allows you to gain further and tighter control over > your environment. It is something that provides you with the ability to > better > understand what is stock and what is custom and what is changed about the > solution. It is one that preserves all changes you have made across upgrades > with a layer of independence and yet links so that changes stay tied into the > solution without the change you have made being updated by the upgrade itself. > > The feature is useful for and I would advocate its use by EVERY customer. > Whether you may many customizations (not the best idea), just a few, or none > at > all, this feature allows you to keep control and organization of the solution > and anything that you adjust about it. > > > Now, although the feature is a powerful one for changing the rules about > customization of applications, it is still the most interesting and powerful > feature of the product that I DON'T WANT YOU TO USE. Customizations should > still be done as little as possible and with care and forethought. If the > change doesn't make better business for your organization, why make the > change? > > Doug Mueller > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chowdhury, Tauf > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 5:55 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 > > I would be curious to understand what all of your thoughts were on the > Overlay feature. It's supposed to support the best practices > customization strategy for BMC. However, what I've heard is that it > introduces so much new workflow (and that it is essentially a brand new > feature), that it doesn't make sense if you keep your customizations to > a minimum and have them well documented. Anyone else have real life > experience using overlays and actually troubleshooting any issues that > are related to it? > > Tauf Chowdhury | Forest Laboratories, Inc. > Analyst, Service Management > Mobile:646.483.2779 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:26 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 > > Having worked for a little more than a decade with these products, I > often > echo similar sentiments.. It makes some of our experiences less > significant > although not completely obsolete. > > Having said that though I sometimes do appreciate some of the changes. > The > one change that I often found myself condemning often was the change > with > the development tool formally known to us as the Admin tool. > > I almost resisted that change until I really worked with the new tool. > Having experienced some of the benefits of the new Dev Studio, I really > wonder if I would be willing to switch back over to the old one. > > I still do not like some of the control taken away from developers, with > the > introduction of numerous plugins, some of which depend on external jar > files > etc. that cannot easily be customized. Well it can but not with a point > and > click like in the past. You cant help but notice though the significant > change in look and feel of consoles that would just not be possible > without > these changes.. So I guess it has all come at some cost. Its no longer > fully > true that you can customize the applications in under a few weeks like > Remedy used to claim in the past, which at one point was their biggest > marketing propaganda. Gives us all a little extra work.. Can you > complain.. > :-) > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sanford, Claire > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:13 PM Newsgroups: > public.remedy.arsystem.general > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 > > I don't understand why BMC is making this product so much harder for > people > to upgrade and use. My whole user base will have to learn a whole new > product this time around. The selling point was that they were used to > Remedy and there wouldn't be so much pain involved. We have so many > people > that depend on the classic view and the ability to have a "private" tab. > > (((Just my opinion))) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Easter, David > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 12:52 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 > > Not a rumor. There is a Statement of Direction posted: > > 24-Sep-2010 Provides end of life information for BMC Remedy ITSM Classic > > views. > http://documents.bmc.com/products/documents/46/22/174622/174622.pdf > > > -David J. Easter > Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform BMC Software, Inc. > > The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed > in > this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My > voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role > as a > spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC > Software, > Inc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Philip, Saji L > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 10:47 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 > > Yes there is still a classic view. By default, the best practice view > is > shown. But I have heard rumors, that BMC will stop the classic view > altogether. > > > Saji > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Atul Vohra > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 12:45 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: ITSM 7.6.4 > > Yes > > There is a separate form for Help Desk (do not remember the name) for > classic view. Also the view (form) shown is configurable from the > Application Administration Console. > > > Atul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Frank Caruso" [caruso.fr...@gmail.com] > Date: 03/08/2011 01:35 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: ITSM 7.6.4 > > ** Can anyone confirm for me whether there is now only one view of the > Help > Desk form, the Best Practice View? > Older versions you cold toggle between the BPV and the Classic View. > > Thank you > > _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug11 > > www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > ********************************************************************** > This e-mail and its attachments may contain Forest Laboratories, Inc. > proprietary information that is privileged, confidential or subject to > copyright belonging to Forest Laboratories, Inc. This e-mail is intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If > you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, or the employee or agent > responsible for delivering this e-mail to the intended recipient, you are > hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or action taken > in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly > prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, > please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and > any copy of this e-mail and any printout. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > -- > John Sundberg > > Kinetic Data, Inc. > "Building a Better Service Experience" > Recipient of: > WWRUG10 Best Customer Service/Support Award > WWRUG09 Innovator of the Year Award > > john.sundb...@kineticdata.com > 651.556.0930 I www.kineticdata.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > > -- > John Sundberg > > Kinetic Data, Inc. > "Building a Better Service Experience" > Recipient of: > WWRUG10 Best Customer Service/Support Award > WWRUG09 Innovator of the Year Award > > john.sundb...@kineticdata.com > 651.556.0930 I www.kineticdata.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
