I'm glad you love Bush so much.
You said I have a limited world view.
Guess what, your beloved president has done more to damage the credibility of
our
country then any president before him.
Around the world, we are disliked and ridiculed by many, and I think we deserve
it...not
because of our people, but because of our president.
Argue that one away.
And, in my limited world view, i've traveled around the world quite a bit. I
spent nearly a
third of my adult life overseas, and I have many friends that I keep in touch
with from my
travels. Believe me, Bush is making a joke out of America.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No one alleged the irrelevancy you attack, that Saddam and Osama
> were best frinds.
>
> Saddam allowed al-qeada in Iraq. Al-Zarchari was its leader there,
> not Osama. That's enough for us to attack Iraq.
>
> You're either with us or with al-qeada. I'm with us. How about you?
>
> Nice revisionist history on the plot to kill our President. Since
> certain documents didn't address it that means it didn't happen? I
> don't think Hussain posted the plan to the Internet.
>
> By the way where's the linK? Wasn't it you who threw a fit when
> someone else icluded source material and not a link?
>
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
> <jerseyshorejohn@> wrote:
> >
> > not exactly "harboring Nidal":
> >
> > "While Abu Nidal, who had been in declining health for years, was
> > living in Baghdad, his terrorist group had been moribund for more
> > than a decade prior to the U.S. invasion. Furthermore, Saddam
> Hussein
> > had him executed in 2002, the year before the U.S. invasion."
> >
> > "harbored al-qaeda"- false:
> >
> > Key portions of the new Intel Committee report indicate that Bush
> > attacked an Iraqi regime that not only lacked an operational
> > relationship with al Qaeda, but was hostile toward the terrorist
> > network. By making the strategic mistake of attacking Iraq,
> Bush's
> > policy accomplished the goals of the al Qaeda network. Here's
> what
> > the report says:
> >
> > [Bin] Ladin generally opposed collaboration [with Baghdad]. (p. 65)
> >
> > According to debriefs of multiple detainees including Saddam
> > Hussein and former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz and capture
> > documents, Saddam did not trust al-Qa'ida or any other radical
> > Islamist group and did not want to cooperate with them. (p. 67)
> >
> > Aziz underscored Saddam's distrust of Islamic extremists like bin
> > Ladin, stating that when the Iraqi regime started to see evidence
> > that Wahabists had come to Iraq, "the Iraqi regime issued a
> decree
> > aggressively outlawing Wahabism in Iraq and threatening offenders
> > with execution." (p. 67)
> >
> > Another senior Iraqi official stated that Saddam did not like bin
> > Ladin because he called Saddam an "unbeliever." (p.73)
> >
> > Conclusion 1:
Postwar findings indicate that Saddam Hussein was
> > distrustful of al-Qa'ida and viewed Islamic extremists as a threat
> to
> > his regime, refusing all requests from al Qa'ida to provide
> material
> > or operational support. Debriefings of key leaders of the former
> > Iraqi regime indicate that Saddam distrusted Islamic radicals in
> > general, and al Qa'ida in particular
Debriefings also indicate
> that
> > Saddam issued a general order that Iraq should not deal with al
> > Qa'ida. No postwar information suggests that the Iraqi regime
> > attempted to facilitate a relationship with bin Ladin. (p. 105)
> >
> > Conclusion 5:
Postwar information indicates that Saddam Hussein
> > attempted, unsuccessfully, to locate and capture al-Zarqawi and
> that
> > the regime did not have a relationship with, harbor, or turn a
> blind
> > eye toward Zarqawi. (p. 109)
> >
> >
> > "tried to kill a US president"- false:
> >
> > The circumstances of the alleged plot, which ended in a trial and
> > conviction of 11 Iraqis and three Kuwaitis, have always evoked
> > skepticism, although Clinton himself was apparently sufficiently
> > convinced after receiving reports from the Federal Bureau of
> > Investigation (FBI) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to order
> a
> > missile strike on the Iraqi intelligence headquarters in Baghdad
> that
> > killed six civilians in June 1993.
> >
> > But a closer look at the 11-year-old plot, particularly in light
> of
> > the findings by the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), the special team of
> > experts that spent 15 months investigating Baghdad's WMD programs
> and
> > found they were all dismantled in 1991 shortly after the end of
> the
> > Gulf War, may now be warranted, especially if Bush is still
> laboring
> > under the impression that Saddam "tried to kill [his] dad."
> >
> > While the ISG's 960-page report, known as the Duelfer Report,
> does
> > not address the assassination attempt, its chronology and
> depiction
> > of Hussein's worldview adduced through lengthy interviews by
> one
> > Arabic-speaking FBI investigator and other interviews of Saddam's
> > closest advisers make the notion that the Iraqi dictator tried
> to
> > kill Bush all the more implausible.
> >
> > For one thing, Saddam, according to the report, was convinced
> that
> > the CIA had thoroughly penetrated his regime and thus would know
> not
> > only that he had dismantled his WMD (which the CIA apparently did
> > not), but also would know about his plans for important
> intelligence
> > operations. Under those circumstances, it is hard to understand
> why
> > he would then order an assassination attempt on the former U.S.
> > president.
> >
> > Even more interesting, according to the report, was Saddam's
> > "complicated" view of the U.S. While he derived "prestige" from
> being
> > an enemy of the U.S., he also considered it to be "equally
> > prestigious for him to be an ally of the United States and
> regular
> > entreaties were made during the last decade to explore this
> > alternative."
> >
> > Indeed, beginning already in 1991, according to the report, "very
> > senior Iraqis close to the president made proposals through
> > intermediaries for dialogue with Washington."
> >
> > "Baghdad offered flexibility on many issues, including offers to
> > assist in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Moreover, in informal
> > discussions, senior officials allowed that, if Iraq had a
> security
> > relationship with the United States, it might be inclined to
> dispense
> > with WMD programs and/or ambitions," it added.
> >
> > The report even concluded that Iraq was willing to be
> Washington's
> > "best friend in the region bar none."
> >
> > The fact that the U.S., under Bush Sr. and Clinton, did not show
> > interest was apparently a source of bewilderment to the Iraqi
> leader,
> > according to the Duelfer report.
> >
> > If Saddam had tried to kill the ex-president, he probably would
> not
> > have been bewildered by Washington's lack of interest, but, by
> all
> > accounts, he was.
> >
> > Repeating lies do not make them true.
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:18 AM, justifiedright wrote:
> >
> > > You've zeroed in on the point Gary. Nice job.
> > >
> > > Almost every combat soldier in the history of the US has faced
> the
> > > same peronal dilemma: To kill, when the nature of himself is not
> to
> > > kill. The way a soldier pulls the trigger, they way he does not
> > > hesitate, is to be secure in the justification of his cause.
> > >
> > > The righteous justifictaion each soldier has in Iraq today is in
> > > fighting the global war on terror. Those reasons I listed earlier
> > > in the thread showed Saddam and his regime were international
> > > terrorists.
> > >
> > > He harboured Nidal, Abbass, al-qeada, funded suicide bombers and
> > > tried to kill a US presdient. The lowest estimate accepted by the
> > > detractors of the war say 5% of the fighting enemy there is al-
> > > qaeda. That's a big chunck of al-qeada.
> > >
> > > Every Democrat and Republican who are now trying to avoid Iraq
> all
> > > knew of Saddam's connection to International Terrorism the day
> they
> > > cast their vote to go in. Nothing changed about that.
> > >
> > > There were no WMD's found. That's one reason we went in. Saddam
> > > and the Iraqi regime being terrorists is not lessened by that.
> They
> > > deserve destruction for their role in terrorism.
> > >
> > > The backing away from Iraq because of the WMD issue is pure
> > > politics. To ignore the terrorism problem is politics.
> > >
> > > How do you think a solider in the field, with a human target
> dialed
> > > in and finger on the trigger feels when he gets reports from home
> > > about people questioning his justification? Supported or not
> > > supported? It's not helping him steel himself to the fight; it's
> to
> > > the contrary, so it is not support.
> > >
> > > Every perons who ignores Nidal, Abbass, al-qeada in Iraq and the
> > > payments to suicide bombers by Saddam, who plays partisan
> politics
> > > with the war effort, is not supporting the troops.
> > >
> > > I want terrorism wiped out. I don't ever want to see Americans
> make
> > > the hobson's choice of buring to death or jumping 80 stories to
> > > their death.
> > >
> > > I support the troops. Their cause is just. Tell them I said so.
> > > Tell them I said God be with them.
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gary Wien <lightgrw@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol'
> commandment "Thou
> > > > Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time. That commandment
> > > never
> > > > says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that, it's
> > > pretty
> > > > specific.
> > > >
> > > > Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect in the
> > > last
> > > > 100 years or so.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <MarioAPNJ@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > > > > > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers;
> > > and "Gott >Mit
> > > > > Uns"
> > > > > > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm
> skeptical
> > > > > >that
> > > > > > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after year
> after
> > > year
> > > > > >means
> > > > > > anything in terms of real support.
> > > > >
> > > > > To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To go
> into
> > > > > battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would want
> to
> > > feel a
> > > > > closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause being
> > > just, to
> > > > > be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous belief.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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