That's not hatred, it's jealousy of our great nation. Don't join
them. Stay with us.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm glad you love Bush so much.
> You said I have a limited world view.
> Guess what, your beloved president has done more to damage the
credibility of our
> country then any president before him.
> Around the world, we are disliked and ridiculed by many, and I
think we deserve it...not
> because of our people, but because of our president.
> Argue that one away.
> And, in my limited world view, i've traveled around the world
quite a bit. I spent nearly a
> third of my adult life overseas, and I have many friends that I
keep in touch with from my
> travels. Believe me, Bush is making a joke out of America.
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<justifiedright@> wrote:
> >
> > No one alleged the irrelevancy you attack, that Saddam and Osama
> > were best frinds.
> >
> > Saddam allowed al-qeada in Iraq. Al-Zarchari was its leader
there,
> > not Osama. That's enough for us to attack Iraq.
> >
> > You're either with us or with al-qeada. I'm with us. How about
you?
> >
> > Nice revisionist history on the plot to kill our President.
Since
> > certain documents didn't address it that means it didn't
happen? I
> > don't think Hussain posted the plan to the Internet.
> >
> > By the way where's the linK? Wasn't it you who threw a fit when
> > someone else icluded source material and not a link?
> >
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
> > <jerseyshorejohn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > not exactly "harboring Nidal":
> > >
> > > "While Abu Nidal, who had been in declining health for years,
was
> > > living in Baghdad, his terrorist group had been moribund for
more
> > > than a decade prior to the U.S. invasion. Furthermore, Saddam
> > Hussein
> > > had him executed in 2002, the year before the U.S. invasion."
> > >
> > > "harbored al-qaeda"- false:
> > >
> > > Key portions of the new Intel Committee report indicate that
Bush
> > > attacked an Iraqi regime that not only lacked an operational
> > > relationship with al Qaeda, but was hostile toward the
terrorist
> > > network. By making the strategic mistake of attacking Iraq,
> > Bush's
> > > policy accomplished the goals of the al Qaeda network. Here's
> > what
> > > the report says:
> > >
> > > [Bin] Ladin generally opposed collaboration [with Baghdad].
(p. 65)
> > >
> > > According to debriefs of multiple detainees including
Saddam
> > > Hussein and former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz and
capture
> > > documents, Saddam did not trust al-Qa'ida or any other
radical
> > > Islamist group and did not want to cooperate with them. (p. 67)
> > >
> > > Aziz underscored Saddam's distrust of Islamic extremists like
bin
> > > Ladin, stating that when the Iraqi regime started to see
evidence
> > > that Wahabists had come to Iraq, "the Iraqi regime issued a
> > decree
> > > aggressively outlawing Wahabism in Iraq and threatening
offenders
> > > with execution." (p. 67)
> > >
> > > Another senior Iraqi official stated that Saddam did not like
bin
> > > Ladin because he called Saddam an "unbeliever." (p.73)
> > >
> > > Conclusion 1:
Postwar findings indicate that Saddam Hussein
was
> > > distrustful of al-Qa'ida and viewed Islamic extremists as a
threat
> > to
> > > his regime, refusing all requests from al Qa'ida to provide
> > material
> > > or operational support. Debriefings of key leaders of the
former
> > > Iraqi regime indicate that Saddam distrusted Islamic radicals
in
> > > general, and al Qa'ida in particular
Debriefings also
indicate
> > that
> > > Saddam issued a general order that Iraq should not deal with
al
> > > Qa'ida. No postwar information suggests that the Iraqi regime
> > > attempted to facilitate a relationship with bin Ladin. (p. 105)
> > >
> > > Conclusion 5:
Postwar information indicates that Saddam
Hussein
> > > attempted, unsuccessfully, to locate and capture al-Zarqawi
and
> > that
> > > the regime did not have a relationship with, harbor, or turn a
> > blind
> > > eye toward Zarqawi. (p. 109)
> > >
> > >
> > > "tried to kill a US president"- false:
> > >
> > > The circumstances of the alleged plot, which ended in a trial
and
> > > conviction of 11 Iraqis and three Kuwaitis, have always
evoked
> > > skepticism, although Clinton himself was apparently
sufficiently
> > > convinced after receiving reports from the Federal Bureau of
> > > Investigation (FBI) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to
order
> > a
> > > missile strike on the Iraqi intelligence headquarters in
Baghdad
> > that
> > > killed six civilians in June 1993.
> > >
> > > But a closer look at the 11-year-old plot, particularly in
light
> > of
> > > the findings by the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), the special team
of
> > > experts that spent 15 months investigating Baghdad's WMD
programs
> > and
> > > found they were all dismantled in 1991 shortly after the end
of
> > the
> > > Gulf War, may now be warranted, especially if Bush is still
> > laboring
> > > under the impression that Saddam "tried to kill [his] dad."
> > >
> > > While the ISG's 960-page report, known as the Duelfer Report,
> > does
> > > not address the assassination attempt, its chronology and
> > depiction
> > > of Hussein's worldview adduced through lengthy interviews by
> > one
> > > Arabic-speaking FBI investigator and other interviews of
Saddam's
> > > closest advisers make the notion that the Iraqi dictator
tried
> > to
> > > kill Bush all the more implausible.
> > >
> > > For one thing, Saddam, according to the report, was convinced
> > that
> > > the CIA had thoroughly penetrated his regime and thus would
know
> > not
> > > only that he had dismantled his WMD (which the CIA apparently
did
> > > not), but also would know about his plans for important
> > intelligence
> > > operations. Under those circumstances, it is hard to
understand
> > why
> > > he would then order an assassination attempt on the former
U.S.
> > > president.
> > >
> > > Even more interesting, according to the report, was Saddam's
> > > "complicated" view of the U.S. While he derived "prestige"
from
> > being
> > > an enemy of the U.S., he also considered it to be "equally
> > > prestigious for him to be an ally of the United States and
> > regular
> > > entreaties were made during the last decade to explore this
> > > alternative."
> > >
> > > Indeed, beginning already in 1991, according to the
report, "very
> > > senior Iraqis close to the president made proposals through
> > > intermediaries for dialogue with Washington."
> > >
> > > "Baghdad offered flexibility on many issues, including offers
to
> > > assist in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Moreover, in
informal
> > > discussions, senior officials allowed that, if Iraq had a
> > security
> > > relationship with the United States, it might be inclined to
> > dispense
> > > with WMD programs and/or ambitions," it added.
> > >
> > > The report even concluded that Iraq was willing to be
> > Washington's
> > > "best friend in the region bar none."
> > >
> > > The fact that the U.S., under Bush Sr. and Clinton, did not
show
> > > interest was apparently a source of bewilderment to the Iraqi
> > leader,
> > > according to the Duelfer report.
> > >
> > > If Saddam had tried to kill the ex-president, he probably
would
> > not
> > > have been bewildered by Washington's lack of interest, but, by
> > all
> > > accounts, he was.
> > >
> > > Repeating lies do not make them true.
> > >
> > > On Sep 4, 2007, at 9:18 AM, justifiedright wrote:
> > >
> > > > You've zeroed in on the point Gary. Nice job.
> > > >
> > > > Almost every combat soldier in the history of the US has
faced
> > the
> > > > same peronal dilemma: To kill, when the nature of himself is
not
> > to
> > > > kill. The way a soldier pulls the trigger, they way he does
not
> > > > hesitate, is to be secure in the justification of his cause.
> > > >
> > > > The righteous justifictaion each soldier has in Iraq today
is in
> > > > fighting the global war on terror. Those reasons I listed
earlier
> > > > in the thread showed Saddam and his regime were international
> > > > terrorists.
> > > >
> > > > He harboured Nidal, Abbass, al-qeada, funded suicide bombers
and
> > > > tried to kill a US presdient. The lowest estimate accepted
by the
> > > > detractors of the war say 5% of the fighting enemy there is
al-
> > > > qaeda. That's a big chunck of al-qeada.
> > > >
> > > > Every Democrat and Republican who are now trying to avoid
Iraq
> > all
> > > > knew of Saddam's connection to International Terrorism the
day
> > they
> > > > cast their vote to go in. Nothing changed about that.
> > > >
> > > > There were no WMD's found. That's one reason we went in.
Saddam
> > > > and the Iraqi regime being terrorists is not lessened by
that.
> > They
> > > > deserve destruction for their role in terrorism.
> > > >
> > > > The backing away from Iraq because of the WMD issue is pure
> > > > politics. To ignore the terrorism problem is politics.
> > > >
> > > > How do you think a solider in the field, with a human target
> > dialed
> > > > in and finger on the trigger feels when he gets reports from
home
> > > > about people questioning his justification? Supported or not
> > > > supported? It's not helping him steel himself to the fight;
it's
> > to
> > > > the contrary, so it is not support.
> > > >
> > > > Every perons who ignores Nidal, Abbass, al-qeada in Iraq and
the
> > > > payments to suicide bombers by Saddam, who plays partisan
> > politics
> > > > with the war effort, is not supporting the troops.
> > > >
> > > > I want terrorism wiped out. I don't ever want to see
Americans
> > make
> > > > the hobson's choice of buring to death or jumping 80 stories
to
> > > > their death.
> > > >
> > > > I support the troops. Their cause is just. Tell them I said
so.
> > > > Tell them I said God be with them.
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gary Wien <lightgrw@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe it's just me, but I'd be hearing that ol'
> > commandment "Thou
> > > > > Shall Not Kill" in my ears all of the time. That
commandment
> > > > never
> > > > > says kill if the battle is correct or anything like that,
it's
> > > > pretty
> > > > > specific.
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny how religion has pretty much abandoned that aspect
in the
> > > > last
> > > > > 100 years or so.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sep 3, 2007, at 5:15 PM, justifiedright wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Mario" <MarioAPNJ@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Then he continued that "Deo Vindice" (God as
> > > > > > > Our Defender) was the slogan of Confederate soldiers;
> > > > and "Gott >Mit
> > > > > > Uns"
> > > > > > > (God with us) worn by German soldiers in WWII. So I'm
> > skeptical
> > > > > > >that
> > > > > > > simply repeating "God Bless our Troops" yaer after
year
> > after
> > > > year
> > > > > > >means
> > > > > > > anything in terms of real support.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To the troop himself I imagine it means a great deal. To
go
> > into
> > > > > > battle, to kill and risk being killed, I think I would
want
> > to
> > > > feel a
> > > > > > closeness with God. I would want to be sure in my cause
being
> > > > just, to
> > > > > > be able to reconcile the killing with my religeous
belief.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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