|
>Don't you give a hoot about your own credibility in your dogged pursuit
of attempting to paint that the people of Assam as >inept, cowardly, lazy,
corrupt and bumbling fools, who are incapable of doing anything right and
thus are unfit to govern >themselves? Hasn't that has been your single
minded objective in these debates?
So this is what you think of the Assamese?
Or does it matter what you or I think? They are what they are.
What do you
think of the Indians? Or does it matter. They are what they
are.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:37
AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient
Links with Mainland India
Rajen:
>It is like as if you are saying,
making two wrongs by AOI will make it right.
**** I am saying that? I hope you are using that 'you' by mistake,
while you really mean 'we', as in the royal we, meaning yourself.
>First
wrong: People of Assam asked and got Assamese as the state language - and
got.
>AOI Hobo Diok Policy: OK, now let us
do a Second wrong: Don't implement the Assamese for >Assam act
(bapeke).
**** Huh?
So you excoriate the caste Hindus of Assam, rightfully for a change, on
its mistreatment of their indigenous brethren from one end and then taunt them
for not going rubbing their noses in the dirt by imposing Assamese as the
state language? Isn't that the truth?
What kind of propositions are these ? Don't you give a hoot about
your own credibility in your dogged pursuit of attempting to paint that the
people of Assam as inept, cowardly, lazy, corrupt and bumbling fools, who are
incapable of doing anything right and thus are unfit to govern
themselves? Hasn't that has been your single minded objective in these
debates?
It is time to give it a rest Rajen. You are doing yourself no favors. I
am really sorry to see this playing out this way.
*** But I will add something here for those who cite the example of
alienating the indigenous people as a reason for Assam's unfitness for
sovereignty, to mull:
It was not ALL of Assam who did that. It was the ruling class and the
establishment that was responsible. And a reformed and sovereign Assam is ALSO
about changing that!
c
At 4:36 PM -0600 11/5/05, Barua25 wrote:
>*** But my
question here is about another matter: About your TAUNTING of Assam Govts.,
past or present, for NOT enforcing >Assamese as the State Language
as in the following exchanges :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Rajen:
>On one side
Assamese are crying for linguistic and cultural
protection.
>Assamese fought and won Assamese as the state
language. All other states have implemented the language act.
>Bengali
in Bengal etc.
>Now Assamese won't implement the 'Assamese in
Assam'act, because, 'Who is
>GOI to tell Assam what to do? You
fix my border first, other wise I won't
>implement my language
act'
>I say hobo diok
It is like
as if you are saying, making two wrongs by AOI will make it
right.
First
wrong: People of Assam asked and got Assamese as the state language - and
got.
AOI Hobo
Diok Policy: OK, now let us do a Second wrong: Don't implement the Assamese
for Assam act (bapeke).
The second
wrong is not going to take away whatever the ill effects was done by the
first.
The
alienation was already done not by the Assamese for Assam act, but by
insensitive remarks constantly being made by political leaders throughout
the century down to present time, including those of people like Chandan
Mahanta and others in the net The alienation was done by the caste Hindu
Assamese treating other sub ethnic groups as second class citizens and not
by the Assamese for Assam act. You don't have to go far. Just look
how the AGP Govt failed to make terms with the Bodo leaders during
their rule. Here the polarization of the Bodos was done not by the GOI but
by the Assamese. That is why I say, Sovereignty will simply shift
the head quarter of polarization from Delhi to Dispur with more hatred
because this time it our own people.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Chan
Mahanta
To: Barua25 ;
mc mahant ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
At 10:16 AM -0600 11/5/05, Barua25 wrote:
>Patently
erroneeous assumptionS.
>Even Delhi stopped this scary
lines .
>100% will agree to
Sovereignty.
*** Here are too many assumptions
for the question which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to
explain:
I would say these
reflect the same caste Hindu Assamese insensitive attitude
towards the other sub ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they
want." Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for which
Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and Khamtis but also are
loosing the Bodos, Mishings, Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can
cite many examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu Assamese
leaders from last 100 years Assam political
history.
*** First of all Assam never OWNED all these other indigenous
people or their land. They merely lived together, in interdependency,
peacefully, without being polarized like it is, thanks to Indian
government policies.
*** But my question here is about another matter: About your
TAUNTING of Assam Govts., past or present, for NOT enforcing
Assamese as the State Language as in the following exchanges :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajen:
On one side Assamese are crying for
linguistic and cultural protection.
>Assamese fought and won
Assamese as the state language. All other staes have implemented the
language act.
Bengali in bengal etc.
Now Assamese won't implement
the 'Assamese in Assam'act, because, 'Who is
GOI to tell Assam
what to do? You fix my border first, other wise I won't
implement my
language act'
I say hobo diok
'betonit poril ow baxudebaye nomoh'
*** Let us not
invoke the "---because the Bengalis have done so, and so must we too"
logic here. If for nothing else, because of the fact that Assam is not as
homogeneous as Bengal is. If you would rather not recognize Assam's unique
situation, its many peoples with their unique cultural and language
identities, but instead recommend keeping up with the Bengalis or
the Gujaratis, would it seriously be a serious recommendation? If Assam
enacts the language act as you recommend, and if the Bodos and the Tiwas
and the Karbis go on the warpath, will it be good for
Assam?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it an example of YOUR speaking from, using your own
phrase, 'both ends' ? Or is there a more honorable explanation
:-)?
O Assamee! when will you
learn and grow?
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: mc
mahant
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56
AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
<<<Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the
Bodos of
Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati
say
no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will
the
sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands
to
those guys>>>>
Patently erroneeous assumptionS.
Even Delhi stopped this scary lines
100%will agree to Sovereignty.
Nothing succeeds like success.
mm
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
mayur bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Bartta
Bistar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient
Links with Mainland India
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20
-0600
BLOCKQUOTE
{
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL
{ PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP:
0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px;
PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI
{ PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP:
0px }
Rajib:
At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote:
But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following
exactly
the lines you worked along
:-)
*** First, for a product of the 21st century
desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time you parrot my
line of arguments and even words and phrases, particularly when you
so vehemently disagree with them. You ought to have learnt by now
that it is very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms :-).
It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere, if not for losing.
A friendly suggestion, not merely for these debates, but for life in
general, is that it is very important for one to seek out creative
answers, seek new paths to solving problems. Your generation, with
the backgrounds like some you have had, ought to be able to deliver
far more than echoing those that you obviously do not agree with. It
is like the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad clones of
Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal. A patently lost
cause!
Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos
of
Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say
no.
The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the
sovereign
government of Assam hand over their lands to
those
guys?
*** Here are too many assumptions for the question which
forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me to
explain:
First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous
groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones who have lived
in geographical Assam for generations will or most likely refuse to
be a part of a sovereign Assam. But that assumption could be
legitimate ONLY if you have explored WHY this situation has
developed in recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to
carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded credibly
that it could NOT resolved except, may only be kept under
check by brutal Indian military might like Saddam Hussein or
the erstwhile USSR or the PRofChina.
But that is a false assumption. For someone like
yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an analysis of the
reasons why this condition has developed
in the NE, and exploration of solutions there
for.
Not that the subject was never broached in this forum. I
have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons. But those of you
who do not accept them, and are endowed with analytical skills and
outlooks, should be able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay
out the reasons for it as you see them.
Once you have done that, you could look into how to
resolve the problem. I know
the answers conceptually and am convinced that a
sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam with REAL powers
to re-orient its governance can resolve these issues quite
easily, because there is a historical precedent for it. These
people lived side by side, in relative peace, interdependently, in
for centuries.
The above two combined, therefore, makes the
analogy of Assam's disaffections as a part of India very
different from the disaffections of the many indigenous people of
the NE , which is a PRODUCT of the reigning Indian system of
unaccountable, dysfunctional governance steeped in the politics of
(not) sharing the spoils.
I understand your and other ethnic Bengalis' fears and
mistrusts of the Oxomiya
chauvinists. But that has changed dramatically over the
decades, even if not dead. But it will be the easiest thing to
overcome, when the intelligentsia of the communities could
join forces, backed by a functioning and trustworthy system of
law-enforcement and justice of a reformed Assam government,
considering the fact that the Assamese are the closest to the
Bengalis in every describable ethnic/cultural traits among all the
people of the South Asian sub-continent (with the exception of our
indigenous Bodos, Karbis, Misings, Tiwas etc. who are historically
more closely related kin.)
So, put your thinking cap on and go at it. Don't try to
throw my arguments at me, when you don't agree. That does not go
anywhere :-).
c-da
And especially in our parts of the
country,
if indeed you do handover Kokrajhar to
Bodoland, what about the
Assamese there who want to be
a part of sovereign India? Or sovereign Assam for
that
matter?
As to why Assam should be a part of
sovereign India, I
will address it in a separate
e-mail!
> > *** That is no argument. Assam is
Assam and it's
> > wishes are not subject to
> >
somebody else's choices, wishes or demands.
> >
>
>
> > But let me ask you, one of the most avid
>
> advocates of India, WHY it is good for India to
> >
hold onto Assam, or how it is good for Assam to
> >
continue to submit to Indian rule?
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> > At 8:01 AM -0800 11/3/05, Rajib Das
wrote:
> > >There was never one India ruler that had
ALL of
> > India
> > >under his belt. The
Cholas were never ruled from
> > >Pataliputra as well.
And Assam as it is known
> today
> > >was not
ruled for ever from Pragjyotishpur.
> > >
> >
>The basis of modern Indian nationhood from most
> >
claims
> > >is the common cultural links across all
the
> regions
> > of
> > >the country.
Actually that is how most modern
> > nations
> > >(including those of
Europe) came about.
> > >
> > >Going by
this logic of who ruled whom, the Nagas
> > >should
not have a country (or for that matter a
> >
state
> > >even) - their territories were, for the
most
> part,
> > >variously ruled by the Meitis
and the Burmese.
> And
> > I
> > >am
sure more than half the tribes of the north
> east
>
> >did not have a king in their name.
> >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Chan
Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
>
> > >>
> > >> >In an
antithesis to the rebels claim that
> > Assam
>
> >> >had never shared a common culture and
history
> > >> >with India before the
Yandaboo >Treaty,
> Mamoni
> > >>
>pointed out that the Ramayana had always
> >
>> >influenced Assamese culture and society.
An
> > >> >acclaimed authority on the
>epic, she said
> > >> >Madhav Kandali,
a 14th century Assamese poet,
> > >> >was
the first to re-tell the Ramayana in a
> > >>
>modern Indo-Aryan >language.
> > >>
>
> >> >Yet, though she underscored
Assams
> inseparable
> > >>
>cultural link with mainland India, she
> skirted
>
> a
> > >> >question on Ulfas demand
for a >sovereign
> > Assam
> > >>
>for obvious reasons. "Please dont mix the
> >
two,"
> > >> >she said.
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>> *** There is a very simple explanation here
>
that
> > >> many people tend to miss:
>
> >>
> > >> In spite of all the
cultural and religious
> links
> > >>
with India, Assam never was a
> > >> subject
of Indian rulers.
> > >>
> >
>> That is how it ought to be. Keep the
cultural
> > >> links, the religious links
and the trade
> links.
> > >> They
cannot be wiped out by an artificial line
> > on
>
> >> the ground. It is not like all of a
sudden
> Assam
> > >> will become a
vassal state of China, or
> Myanmar,
> >
>> or B-Desh. But why force Indian rule on
Assam?
> > >> Let both flourish, side by
side, in friendship
> > >> and mutual
co-operation, like the two did over
> > >>
millenia, for the greater good of all.
> >
>>
> > >> cm
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >> At 7:42 AM +0000 11/3/05,
Bartta Bistar wrote:
> > >> >Guwahati,
Thursday, November 3, 2005
> > >>
>
> > >> >
> > >>
>Epics linked Assam with India culturally
> >
>> >
> > >>
>http://www.assamtribune.com/ 3 November 2005
> >
>> >By A Staff Reporter
> > >>
> GUWAHATI, Nov 2 The Ramayana and the
> >
>> >Mahabharata the two Indian epics
have
> > linked
> > >> >Assam
with the rest of India culturally in an
> >
>> >inseparable manner. Assam has a vibrant
>
> cultural
> > >> >tradition that
speaks of its cultural link
> with
> >
>> >the mainland. Its cultural relation with
the
> > >> >mainland is very strong and
old. There were
> > some
> > >> >smaller paths across the
Himalayas, which
> > served
> > >>
>as the channels for surface communication
>
among
> > >> >the scholars of the State
and from other
> parts
> > >> >of
India so far as maintaining mutual
> relations
> >
>> >was concerned.
> > >>
>
> > >> >These were the observations
made by noted
> > >> >litterateur Dr Mamoni
Raisom (Indira)
> Goswami,
> > >>
>who has now been acting as a mediator between
>
===
message truncated
===
__________________________________
Yahoo!
FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one
click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>assam
mailing
list
>assam@assamnet.org
>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________
assam
mailing
list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
|
