C'da
*** That is about the most convoluted explanation of democracy and
egregious spin on India's behavior
I have heard so far Ram.
I am trying to differentiate here: The Gujars and the Meenas are clashing in Rajasthan - basically one group does not want the other to get ST status (while they, themselves should). Without going into the details who should and who shouldn't, the basic underpinning of this whole this is Economics. Neither the Gujars or the Meenas (IMHO) would be so concerned of their Scheduled Tribe Status if there were jobs and other resources aplenty. After all - the 6th Schedule is only in the Constitution - and whether it is or isn't the Gujars and the Meenas will remain whatever they have been - Tribes or non-Tribes. So, why the big rushing need to be included in the 6th - Jobs and oppturnities. A mjor cause to most of India's problems (including ULFA ) can be traced to economics, wants and needs, as opposed to "we are separate cultural identity" argument per se. I would even go a bit further - sometimes even "demands" for the preservation cultural identities ties back to economics. Hence, such cultural identities prove to be a boon - hence, Marathis/Bodos/Assamese or in this case Gujars or Meenas form numbers to jostle for better economic benefits. The other thing to fact is political power - ie. politicians play one group against the other for such power. --Ram On 6/1/07, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The right to bandhs, hartals, strikes are possible in India because its a democracy and they happen >because there is NOT enough to go around. It does not happen in the US because most of the most >common things have already been met. *** That is about the most convoluted explanation of democracy and egregious spin on India's behavior I have heard so far Ram. At 10:34 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Oh! I forgot, C'da LA riots (after the OJ Simpson thing), NY Black out . maybe I am forgetting a few. But you are right, the US has far fewer of such riots than India or most of the up & coming economies do. And that can be attributed, in general, to the limited resources, and too many people these countries have. If some of the countries have democracies, there are demonstrations, protests etc - which often go haywire. If they are NOT democratic then they can be quelled swiftly. The right to bandhs, hartals, strikes are possible in India because its a democracy and they happen because there is NOT enough to go around. It does not happen in the US because most of the most common things have already been met. --Ram On 5/31/07,* Chan Mahanta* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to expand on, I am sure). *** Yes, but we are comparing apples and oranges. >Elian Gonzalez ** It was case of enforcement of a court order. No one was killed if I am not mistaken. >Ruby Ridge *** It was a case of criminal kidnapping. >David Koresh *** Again a criminal case of confinement and refusal to submit to a court order, leading to a police/paramiltary raid, to defy which the inmates of the commune committed mass suicide. None of these were anything akin to political /social disaffections , ignored by authorities, leading to demonstrations that turned into rioting terminated by military /police firing against their OWN PEOPLE. At 8:29 AM -0600 5/31/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote: Just to butt in here a bit. In the US, we have several examples (which C'da will be glad to expand on, I am sure). Elian Gonzalez Ruby Ridge David Koresh In the last two, (it wasn't the US Army) but paramil. forces - people got killed On 5/31/07,* SANDIP DUTTA* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Still waiting to hear what happens in similar situations in US of A - say like if some African Americans were to protest again over Hurricane Katrina? Maybe we should learn and implement similar policies here. Do they get 125 yrs jail...or Guantanamo Bay?.......or there's political settlement? Rgds, Sandip ----- Original Message ---- From: umesh sharma < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: SANDIP DUTTA < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Chan Mahanta < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:56:42 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gujar it confirms my opinion that Gujjars are not that backward -- in comparison to the tribes /castes who are in SC ST category -- nobody oppresses them - but they are maig this demand after upper caste have got 10% reservation in Rajasthan and Jats -another dominant warrior caste (rules Alwar and Haryana) has been included in OBC category by former Congress govt. of Rajasthan Umesh *SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>*>* wrote: "Think deeper" - he he! How much deep info did you have about Meenas, Gujjars etc in Rajasthan? - before you read the BBC report? And you already decided it was a legitimate demand? BTW, you didnt answer what happens in the US of A. Rgds, Sandip ----- Original Message ---- From: Chan Mahanta < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: SANDIP DUTTA < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Chandan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 11:10:05 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots Sandip: You need to to think a little DEEPER! WHY did RIOTING have to take place to begin with? Did these people wake up one fine morning and decided, : Heck, things are dull, let us go burn some buses today and cut-off policemen's limbs? Think about it and come back with your questions again. sd At 6:06 AM -0700 5/31/07, SANDIP DUTTA wrote: Hello Sondon Da, As far as I understand, police and RAF are meant to maintain law & order and prevent rioters getting out of hand. Thats their job. Army is called in only when situation gets out of control. Same approach is applied everywhere. Local Admin calls in the army. In this case, Rajasthan police had no experience handling anything of this kind in the last many decades. May we know what approach is taken towards rioters who use violence as a form of protest and then try justifying it - in the worlds greatest demokrasy - your home, the United EStates of Amrika? I mean people who damage govt. property, possibly kill and maim others and try to undermine state authority? Rgds, SD ----- Original Message ---- From: Chandan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:59:35 AM Subject: [Assam] BBC E-mail: Army deployed after India riots Chandan Mahanta saw this story on the BBC News website and thought you should see it. ** Message ** This is typical of the Indian state's conflict resolution program, which has not changed in sixty years after freedom. ** Army deployed after India riots ** Troops are deployed in India's Rajasthan state after 14 people are killed in clashes over government job quotas. < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/6703133.stm > ** BBC Daily E-mail ** Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail < http://www.bbc.co.uk/email > ** Disclaimer ** The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything written in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views or opinions. 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