Ram:
There are many in the NE and other states that believe that they have been given a raw deal by the Center.
*** Do you think there is any reason for it, or are they just cry babies as some of you seem to believes?
But the METHODS or processes of redressing these differ from 'them terrorists'. One doesn't need to go gun-toting to adresss these ills.
*** What might those be? Will featuring in the national anthem salve those kharkhowa hurts, if not eradicate them?
Jana gono mono odhi nayoko joyohe
Bharata bhagyo bidhata
Punjaabo, Oxomo ( or Kashmiro) gujarato, maratha
Dravida utkolo bongo---Does not even rhyme. It would be a an anthem singer's nightmare. Also what are the chances of them kharkhowas beating out Kashmiris? Kashmir real-estate is far more sexy, far more valuable than the swamps and jungles of the NE, isn't it?
Sure it is. We all know that. You seem to imply that it is ONLY the Indian society that has these. One can show any number of examples in any society for such things.
*** The difference Ram, lies in the propensity, the degree, in which desis have resigned themselves to embrace the symbols as the real thing, and remaining smug about it.
Extending your's and Prasenjit's logic (about going ONLY after the real thing), my question is why then are people are so concerned about 'language/cultural' development?
*** You got the wrong idea about 'symbols' vs. the real thing. I was not implying aspirations of 'cultural or linguistic identities as 'unreal'. They too are real aspirations. But can having a statue of Lachit Borphukan, a symbolic recognition of kharkhowa martial legacy in the military academy at Vizag substitute such aspirations? Or the awards of this or that national awards to Kharkhowa artists or literateurs?
Incidentally, one of the most glaring omissions or ignorances some of you demonstrated last week about Assam's alienations were your beliefs that it was all about economic development or lack of it. Shows how much you guys are out of it.
That fact remains that cultural identities and insecurities, the history of the peoples of the land, however ill defined or recorded, still does play a very important part in this entire imbroglio. It never was about bread alone.
Frankly, I think, we tend to choose and pick what we think are 'real' issues and relegate others to symbolism.
I just explained it above . Hope it registers Ram.
c-da
At 8:58 AM -0800 1/4/05, ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da,
They are feeble and meaningless gestures towards addressing the NE's sense of alienation that you and others try to portray or believe as existing only among them 'terrorists'.
There are many in the NE and other states that believe that they have been given a raw deal by the Center. But the METHODS or processes of redressing these differ from 'them terrorists'. One doesn't need to go gun-toting to adresss these ills.
Indian society is indeed rife with symbols as substitutes for the real thing. Do you wish to refute that Ram? I will take you on if you wish to embark on that. And as a warning, I will start with Hinduism and Hinduttwa :-).
Sure it is. We all know that. You seem to imply that it is ONLY the Indian society that has these. One can show any number of examples in any society for such things. I welcome any characterization on Hinduism, and I can show similar example in Islam or Christianity. And I show these not just as a defense of Hinduism, but more so that all religions are the in the same pickle.
Extending your's and Prasenjit's logic (about going ONLY after the real thing), my question is why then are people are so concerned about 'language/cultural' development? Why not, for example, let the B'deshis swamp Assam? Whats the big deal? After all they too are just people (some good and others not). Maybe they will pick-up Assamese at some point. Why fight over territories, and borders, c'da? After all a border is just an imaginary line, nothing 'real' there, is there?.
Frankly, I think, we tend to choose and pick what we think are 'real' issues and relegate others to symbolism.
--Ram
--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >circumstances, and if now included it will be aHi Ram:
I don't have anything against your or anybody else's desire or attempts to infuse a sense of nation in the minds of the people of Assam by having the state's or the NE region's existence being acknowledged by the rest in the national anthem. all powers to you.
But it will be merely be another symbol. Like all that drumbeat about how Lachit Borphukan now being a 'national hero', thanks to the efforts of the light general.They are feeble and meaningless gestures towards addressing the NE's sense of alienation that you and others try to portray or believe as existing only among them 'terrorists'.
Indian society is indeed rife with symbols as substitutes for the real thing. Do you wish to refute that Ram? I will take you on if you wish to embark on that. And as a warning, I will start with Hinduism and Hinduttwa :-).
c-da
At 7:29 AM -0800 1/4/05, ram Sarangapani wrote: >C'da & Prasenjit, > >First I would like to say both of you have valid >points & I even agree with you to a certain extent. I >truly understand we need to think about substance >rather than some icing on the cake. I too would like >for us to overcome the big issues. > >Now, having said that, lets look at this in a >different light: > >My point in raising the issue is not so much in >getting some belated recognition (which may not mean >much to some), rather to help in some sense of >belonging to the nation as a whole. National Anthems >are important (else nations wouldn't have them), and >they are not all rah rah. I believe they instill >intrinsic benefits like national pride. > >I have no power or the wherewithal to solve the big >and important issues facing the NE, so I thought it >would be nice if I could attempt on trifle issues a >bit >and do my bit. Anyway, whether the problems are big or >small, one way for folks like us is to make our views >heard - by writing -:) > >> Symbols are way too pervasive in Indian culture. And >> they have taken the place substance as an acceptable >>substitute, in every sphere of life; from religion to >> education to morality to progress. > >Really, can you list a few cultures or nations which >are above this. Is the US above this, or is India is >the only guilt party here? > >--Ram > > > >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Very well said Prasenjit. >> >> Symbols are way too pervasive in Indian culture. And >> they have taken >> the place substance as an acceptable substitute, in >> every sphere of >> life; from religion to >> education to morality to progress. >> >> There also has been a concerted attempt on the part >> of some political >> elements to give their symbols more RECOGNITION, >> publicity, as if >> that is what will ameliorate Assam's pains. 'Kona >> haanhok potaan >> dhaan diya' can go only so far. >> >> >> cm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 8:22 PM -0500 1/3/05, Prasenjit Chetia wrote: >> >To be frank I never felt any difference by not >> having NE mentioned in >> >the national anthem. The idea of back tracking to >> minor issues only >> >bring complications and take away your attention >> from other real >> >issues. Now we have a habit is finding a glitch in >> everything, and if >> >we go back to that point of history when Tagore >> wrote the anthem I >> >think it was the inability of our leaders to put >> that point on the >> >table. I totally disagree that this is valid >> question in present>> meagre ornament in >> >another. Nothing more than that. Symbols don't make >> our life easier. >> >The more you have, you become blind. >> > >> >Prasenjit >> > >> > >> >On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 00:27:07 +0000 (GMT), umesh >> sharma >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> thats a very valid question you have raised >> Ram-da! >> >> >> >> Umesh >> >> >> >> ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Below is a letter I mailed to the TOI. I am not > > sure >> >> if it will be published. >> >> >> >> The TOI reported that a attorney has filed a law >> suit >> >> in the Supreme Court to remove the word 'Sindh' >> from >> >> the Anthem and replace it with Kashmir. >> >> >> >> Hopefully, some attorney in Assam can take the >> cue and >> >> file a similar suit to include the NE States. >> >> >> >> --Ram >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear Sir, >> >> >> >> This is in reference to the news item published >> today >> >> (Jan 03, 05) regarding the move to delete the >> word >> >> Sindh from the National Anthem. >> >> >> >> While this removal may be a debatable point, I >> would >> >> like the National Anthem to include the North
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