Rajen:
Knowing what we we do, if you were asked to vote on the issue of whether to give Modi an US Visa, how would you vote ?
I ask all the other netters the same question too.
I would have voted no, as I indicated earlier.
I know it would cause a lot of discomfiture among some :-), but I like to think you would not have to agonize over it.
c
At 5:09 PM -0600 3/19/05, Barua25 wrote:
> Question is now what?
What to do. Just follow the Golden Rule. Those who have the gold, make the rule, always. Rajen
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Alpana B. Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 2:10 PM Subject: Now What?
theI think all of you folks indignant with the US State Dept. for not giving a visa to Modi are right. Modi's fault is that he is a Hindu, and CM of a Hindu state. Thus his war against the Muslims is not as just as the US war against the Muslims. All Modi did was turn a blind eye while Gujarat burned. He did not even declare a war like the US did on Iraq.
After all the BJP did to support US policies, this is what the BJP poster-boy, Modi, gets!! You can't win for losing, can you?
Question is now what?
At 1:02 PM -0600 3/19/05, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: >I agree again. > >While killing people in a real warfield or killing by instigating or >supporting (directly or indirectly and not stopping it, even >when you have the ability - administrativel power to stop it) a >riot, is the same thing, it depends on how today's "civilized" >people see it. > >In a civilized society, a war gives the license to kill to the killers. > > > > > > >From: "Barua25" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Rajib Das" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chan Mahanta" >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "umesh sharma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >><assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu> >>Subject: Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some more >>Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:20:22 -0600 >> >>I think the case of "war" (which is always considered a "just war" by>>country involved) applies in this case which differentiate betweenpeoplefor>>getting killed in war and and people being killing for ethnic cleansing. >>I found out that 4000 American soldiers were killed in the liberationwe>>Italy during WWII ( I think about 50000 Italians). >>Now 1500 American soldiers got killed in Iraq war. >>War does not bring amy guilt feeling to any country. Only case of guilt>>find in history was the case of Ashoka with the Kallinga war where hefelt>>so much guilt that he changed his religion to Buddhism which manyattribute> >> >>>to the eventual downfall of the empire. >>This is the norm of our present phase of civilization!!! >>Kill or get killed. >>Rajen Barua >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Rajib Das" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "umesh sharma" >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu> >>Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:54 AM >>Subject: Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some more >> >> >> > If body count be the metric on which guilt is >> > established, I wonder whether we need to wonder at all >> > as to who is a more guilty person - Bush (and >> > Rumsfield)or Narendra Modi. By conservative estimates >> > they would have killed 100 times over. Oh yes, they >> > also got as many of their own (American soldiers) >> > killed. >> > >> > So, shall we say, the position espoused in this e-mail >> > is a demonstration of typical American disregard of >> > law. >> > >> > >> > >> > --- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> > > taking that>> > > Umesh: >> > > >> > > >> > > >So with that analogy -- it doesn't seem that US is> >> > > rioteous :-) Hindus>> > > >extreme step -- so does US really blame Modi for >> > > hindu-muslim riots. >> > > >I do not see US doing anything when riots are going >> > > on anywhere - >> > > >unless the terrorists bomb US -like in Sep11. >> > > >> > > >> > > There are limits, boundaries which even a Bush >> > > admin. or Wolfowitz or >> > > Rumsfeldt would not cross, and should not. The >> > > pogrom of Muslims in >> > > Gujarat is a horrible stigma to the Indian >> > > civilization. But that >> > > notwithstanding, the USA cannot and should not >> > > attempt to intervene >> > > militarily. It should have ( I don't know if it did) >> > > intervened >> > > diplomatically. My guess would be is that it did, >> > > perhaps to no >> > > avail. But that is not an US failure: It was a >> > > singularly Indian >> > > failure. >> > > >> > > >> > > Therefore, your doubts, as expressed in the >> > > question" So why this >> > > nonsense?" is an illustration of more of the same: >> > > An appalling > > > > Indian disregard to the rule of law. >> > > >> > > c-da >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > At 2:24 AM +0000 3/19/05, umesh sharma wrote: >> > > >C-da, >> > > > >> > > >I cannot agree or disagree with you since the issue >> > > u mention about >> > > >Indira Gnadhi and Indian Americans reactions about >> > > many issues - >> > > >since I do not know anything about them. >> > > > >> > > >However, I would say that if my neighbour is >> > > butchering his or her >> > > >children -- I would enter by force --and stop >> > > her/him. >> > > > >> > > >So with that analogy -- it doesn't seem that US is >> > > taking that >> > > >extreme step -- so does US really blame Modi for >> > > hindu-muslim riots. >> > > >I do not see US doing anything when riots are going >> > > on anywhere - >> > > >unless the terrorists bomb US -like in Sep11. >> > > > >> > > >So why this nonsense? >> > > > >> > > >Umesh >> > > > >> > > >Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >Hi Umesh: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >At 9:58 PM +0000 3/18/05, umesh sharma wrote: >> > > > >> > > >>C-da, >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >I am not an expert on international visa law- but >> > > if we start giving >> > > >visas based on our perception of what happens in >> > > other countries >> > > >--then I would say that we are interfering in the >> > > affairs of that >> > > >nation. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >*** There is no such thing as Int'l Visa Laws. Each >> > > country has its >> > > >own rules, and often have agreements or >> > > understandings for >> > > >reciprocity etc. with other countries. And the more >> > > powerful or >> > > >influential a nation is, the more arbitrary they >> > > can get about what >> > > >they choose to do. >> > > > >> > > >However the US not granting a visa to Modi or >> > > whoever, does not >> > > >constitute interference with another country's >> > > internal affairs. >> > > >That complaint of interfering with the internal >> > > affairs of another >> > > >country usually emanates from people attempting to >> > > keep their >> > > >internal dirt under their rug. Unfortunately, or >> > > fortunately in this >> > > >case :-), there are people here in the USA who have >> > > an interest in >> > > >what goes on in India. I am certainly pleased to >> > > see that the >> > > >progressive desis here including Muslims ( I don't >> > > automatically >> > > >exclude them) >> > > >chose to raise their voice and send a signal. >> > > > >> > > >Not that it is going to hurt Modi. If anything he >> > > will now be a >> > > >greater hero to all his supporters, all those> >> > > >knows, he might become the supreme leader of the>> > > >who believe that India is theirs and Muslims don't >> > > belong there. Who>> > > BJP now. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >I do not know whether it is supposed to be ethical >> > > that if there is >> > > >a fight going on in a neighbor's house -- then you >> > > stop letting a >> > > >member from that family into your own house. That >> > > is what Modi's >> > > >visa stoppal amounts to be. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >*** Good analogy. What do you think? Would you >> > > consider your >> > > >neighborly and human duty to interfere with the guy >> > > next-door >> > > >attempting to butcher his children? What do you >> > > think of Indira >> > > >Gandhi's interfering with Pakistan's internal >> > > affair when they were >> > > >slaughtering B'Deshis? >> > > > >> > > >c-da >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >Umesh >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >PS: I mentioned about the truth being what the >> > > powerful say -- an >> > > >instance -- the Union Carbide (USA's MNC) killed >> > > 10,000 people in >> > > >Bhopal in Dec 1984 and maimed 200,000 (and thats a >> > > very hard and >> > > >concrete fact) . >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >Still India dare not ban it from its land --for the >> > > fear that all US >> > > >based MNCs would stop coming to India or that India >> > > would stop >> > > >getting defense supplies from powerful USA. If >> > > India had been >> > > >powerful - its truth would have prevailed and Union > > > > Carbide (and its >> > > >current owner Dupont) would be banned from India. >> > > But weak India >> > > >cannot implement something which is the truest of >> > > the truths >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >*** Business-interests often trump justice, doesn't >> > > it? What do you >> > > >think of it? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > === message truncated ===> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > > Assam mailing list >> > > Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam >> > > >> > > Mailing list FAQ: >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html >> > > To unsubscribe or change options: >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________ >> > Do you Yahoo!? >> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! >> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Assam mailing list >> > Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam >> > >> > Mailing list FAQ: >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html >> > To unsubscribe or change options: >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam >> > >>_______________________________________________ >>Assam mailing list >>Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu >>http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam >> >>Mailing list FAQ: >>http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html >>To unsubscribe or change options: >>http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
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