>I got religion :-).
Is it the saffron-clad religion that you got? Well, if that's what it takes for one to become neutral, it is great. :)
BTW:
>>>After all the BJP did to support US policies, this is what the BJP
>>>poster-boy, Modi, gets!! You can't win for losing, can you?
I though the BJP was kind of neutral on Iraq. As far as I remember, during the beginning of the war, the then Indian PM, ABV refused to constant US pressure for Indian troops to Iraq.
>To: "Alpana B. Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu
>Subject: RE: Now What?
>Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 15:09:20 -0600
>
>You got it dead to rights Alpana .
>
>I got religion :-).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 2:35 PM -0600 3/19/05, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote:
>>O' C'da: Suddenly, you are saying all kinds of 'neutral' things
>>today?
>>
>>'Maane` koisu nohoy sok-khai moriboloike` ulaisilu, - aapunar
>>eikhon sithir kotha kei-xaari porhi uthi.'
>>
>>What happened? While you (alongwith Tilok) were making the
>>'bybostha' for the 'bihlongoni di bhut jaaraa' to Ramgopal et el,
>>did the 'bej', by mistake, did the 'bhut-jaara' on you instead?
>>
>>:)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: "Alpana B. Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
>>>assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu
>>>Subject: Now What?
>>>Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:10:11 -0600
>>>
>>>I think all of you folks indignant with the US State Dept. for not
>>>giving a visa to Modi are right. Modi's fault is that he is a
>>>Hindu,
>>>and CM of a Hindu state. Thus his war against the Muslims is not
>>>as
>>>just as the US war against the Muslims. All Modi did was turn a
>>>blind eye while Gujarat burned. He did not even declare a war like
>>>the US did on Iraq.
>>>
>>>After all the BJP did to support US policies, this is what the BJP
>>>poster-boy, Modi, gets!! You can't win for losing, can you?
>>>
>>>Question is now what?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 1:02 PM -0600 3/19/05, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote:
>>>>I agree again.
>>>>
>>>>While killing people in a real warfield or killing by instigating
>>>>or supporting (directly or indirectly and not stopping it, even
>>>>when you have the ability - administrativel power to stop it) a
>>>>riot, is the same thing, it depends on how today's "civilized"
>>>>people see it.
>>>>
>>>>In a civilized society, a war gives the license to kill to the
>>>>killers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >From: "Barua25" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>To: "Rajib Das" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chan Mahanta"
>>>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "umesh sharma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>>><assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some
>>>>>more
>>>>>Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 11:20:22 -0600
>>>>>
>>>>>I think the case of "war" (which is always considered a "just
>>>>>war"
>>>>>by the
>>>>>country involved) applies in this case which differentiate
>>>>>between
>>>>>people
>>>>>getting killed in war and and people being killing for ethnic
>>>>>cleansing.
>>>>>I found out that 4000 American soldiers were killed in the
>>>>>liberation for
>>>>>Italy during WWII ( I think about 50000 Italians).
>>>>>Now 1500 American soldiers got killed in Iraq war.
>>>>>War does not bring amy guilt feeling to any country. Only case
>>>>>of
>>>>>guilt we
>>>>>find in history was the case of Ashoka with the Kallinga war
>>>>>where
>>>>>he felt
>>>>>so much guilt that he changed his religion to Buddhism which
>>>>>many
>>>>>attribute
>>>>>to the eventual downfall of the empire.
>>>>>This is the norm of our present phase of civilization!!!
>>>>>Kill or get killed.
>>>>>Rajen Barua
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Rajib Das" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>To: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "umesh sharma"
>>>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu>
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 9:54 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi-some
>>>>>more
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > If body count be the metric on which guilt is
>>>>> > established, I wonder whether we need to wonder at all
>>>>> > as to who is a more guilty person - Bush (and
>>>>> > Rumsfield)or Narendra Modi. By conservative estimates
>>>>> > they would have killed 100 times over. Oh yes, they
>>>>> > also got as many of their own (American soldiers)
>>>>> > killed.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So, shall we say, the position espoused in this e-mail
>>>>> > is a demonstration of typical American disregard of
>>>>> > law.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > Umesh:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > >So with that analogy -- it doesn't seem that US is
>>>>> > > taking that
>> >>> > > >extreme step -- so does US really blame Modi for
>>>>> > > hindu-muslim riots.
>>>>> > > >I do not see US doing anything when riots are going
>>>>> > > on anywhere -
>>>>> > > >unless the terrorists bomb US -like in Sep11.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > There are limits, boundaries which even a Bush
>>>>> > > admin. or Wolfowitz or
>>>>> > > Rumsfeldt would not cross, and should not. The
>>>>> > > pogrom of Muslims in
>>>>> > > Gujarat is a horrible stigma to the Indian
>>>>> > > civilization. But that
>>>>> > > notwithstanding, the USA cannot and should not
>>>>> > > attempt to intervene
>>>>> > > militarily. It should have ( I don't know if it did)
>>>>> > > intervened
>>>>> > > diplomatically. My guess would be is that it did,
>>>>> > > perhaps to no
>>>>> > > avail. But that is not an US failure: It was a
>>>>> > > singularly Indian
>>>>> > > failure.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Therefore, your doubts, as expressed in the
>>>>> > > question" So why this
>>>>> > > nonsense?" is an illustration of more of the same:
>>>>> > > An appalling
>>>> > > > Indian disregard to the rule of law.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > c-da
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > At 2:24 AM +0000 3/19/05, umesh sharma wrote:
>>>>> > > >C-da,
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >I cannot agree or disagree with you since the issue
>>>>> > > u mention about
>>>>> > > >Indira Gnadhi and Indian Americans reactions about
>>>>> > > many issues -
>>>>> > > >since I do not know anything about them.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >However, I would say that if my neighbour is
>>>>> > > butchering his or her
>>>>> > > >children -- I would enter by force --and stop
>>>>> > > her/him.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >So with that analogy -- it doesn't seem that US is
>>>>> > > taking that
>>>>> > > >extreme step -- so does US really blame Modi for
>>>>> > > hindu-muslim riots.
>>>>> > > >I do not see US doing anything when riots are going
>>>>> > > on anywhere -
>>>>> > > >unless the terrorists bomb US -like in Sep11.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >So why this nonsense?
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >Umesh
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >Hi Umesh:
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >At 9:58 PM +0000 3/18/05, umesh sharma wrote:
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >>C-da,
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >I am not an expert on international visa law- but
>>>>> > > if we start giving
>>>>> > > >visas based on our perception of what happens in
>>>>> > > other countries
>>>>> > > >--then I would say that we are interfering in the
>>>>> > > affairs of that
>>>>> > > >nation.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >*** There is no such thing as Int'l Visa Laws. Each
>>>>> > > country has its
>>>>> > > >own rules, and often have agreements or
>>>>> > > understandings for
>>>>> > > >reciprocity etc. with other countries. And the more
>>>>> > > powerful or
>>>>> > > >influential a nation is, the more arbitrary they
>>>>> > > can get about what
>>>>> > > >they choose to do.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >However the US not granting a visa to Modi or
>>>>> > > whoever, does not
>>>>> > > >constitute interference with another country's
>>>>> > > internal affairs.
>>>>> > > >That complaint of interfering with the internal
>>>>> > > affairs of another
>>>>> > > >country usually emanates from people attempting to
>>>>> > > keep their
>>>>> > > >internal dirt under their rug. Unfortunately, or
>>>>> > > fortunately in this
>>>>> > > >case :-), there are people here in the USA who have
>>>>> > > an interest in
>>>>> > > >what goes on in India. I am certainly pleased to
>>>>> > > see that the
>>>>> > > >progressive desis here including Muslims ( I don't
>>>>> > > automatically
>>>>> > > >exclude them)
>>>>> > > >chose to raise their voice and send a signal.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >Not that it is going to hurt Modi. If anything he
>>>>> > > will now be a
>>>>> > > >greater hero to all his supporters, all those
>>>>> > > rioteous :-) Hindus
>>>>> > > >who believe that India is theirs and Muslims don't
>>>>> > > belong there. Who
>>>>> > > >knows, he might become the supreme leader of the
>>>>> > > BJP now.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >I do not know whether it is supposed to be ethical
>>>>> > > that if there is
>>>>> > > >a fight going on in a neighbor's house -- then you
>> >>> > > stop letting a
>>>>> > > >member from that family into your own house. That
>>>>> > > is what Modi's
>>>>> > > >visa stoppal amounts to be.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >*** Good analogy. What do you think? Would you
>>>>> > > consider your
>>>>> > > >neighborly and human duty to interfere with the guy
>>>>> > > next-door
>>>>> > > >attempting to butcher his children? What do you
>>>>> > > think of Indira
>>>>> > > >Gandhi's interfering with Pakistan's internal
>>>>> > > affair when they were
>>>>> > > >slaughtering B'Deshis?
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >c-da
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >Umesh
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >PS: I mentioned about the truth being what the
>>>>> > > powerful say -- an
>>>>> > > >instance -- the Union Carbide (USA's MNC) killed
>>>>> > > 10,000 people in
>>>>> > > >Bhopal in Dec 1984 and maimed 200,000 (and thats a
>>>>> > > very hard and
>>>>> > > >concrete fact) .
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >Still India dare not ban it from its land --for the
>>>>> > > fear that all US
>>>>> > > >based MNCs would stop coming to India or that India
>>>>> > > would stop
>>>>> > > >getting defense supplies from powerful USA. If
>>>>> > > India had been
>>>>> > > >powerful - its truth would have prevailed and Union
>>>> > > > Carbide (and its
>>>>> > > >current owner Dupont) would be banned from India.
>>>>> > > But weak India
>>>>> > > >cannot implement something which is the truest of
>>>>> > > the truths
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >*** Business-interests often trump justice, doesn't
>>>>> > > it? What do you
>>>>> > > >think of it?
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > > >>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > === message truncated ===>
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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