Hi Ram:
> If you
had noticed, I don't wave such flags. Actually, I often find myself
defending Hinduism when OTHER religions are somehow portrayed as being
>superior.
*** That is certainly a generous thing for you to do--to
come the defense of the underdog. I do that myself once in a
while. Well, come to think of it, I probably do that a lot.
But I don't know that there have been many attempts at portraying
Islam or Christianity etc., the most significant competitors of
Hinduism for salvation, being touted as superior to it. Or even
for political expediencies. But then again I know I miss stuff often
too. So we will let that pass.
This often happens (whether its India or Hinduism) to some when they
suddenly find themselves in the West, and start having dim views of
India/Hinduism : The West seems to have brought 'religion' to them
>overnight.
*** This confuses me, AGAIN. Is India and Hinduism synonymous? I
mean, of all people, to someone like you ?
But the other thing, these new converts talking down their
compatriots' faith and the like, surely is crass, uncouth,
unsophisticated. You, as a fair minded person, will be remiss if you
did not point that out or challenge these pseudo-intellectuals. I am
with you on that.
Also, good to learn, at long last, the definition of 'pseudo
intellectual'. Always baffled me you know?
*** But---you know how these buts keep appearing like nasty
pop-ups on the internet -- I have a question. See if you csan help me
out here:
Sure it would. Its one thing to come to the defence of your beliefs
>and totally another to brandish or wave it in someone's
face.
*** You are right. It is a subtle difference, not always
apparent.
Many a time, one comes does across netters who NOW realize that other
faiths such as Islam/Bhuddhism or even Christainity as the 'in thing'
or some new found salvation, and Hinduism or Indian traits as being
>shameful or abhorrent.
*** I am sure that happens once in a while. But that is not like
the exception proving the rule though. I didn't realize that ANY
religion is really "IN" in Assam net. My gut feeling is that
most of us here are, by and large, not even religious in the
traditional sense. Oh some do indulge in defending Hinduism when
they fear it is under attack by them Jihadis -- you for example. But
that is a political reaction, not religious.
That is why I get quite curious about those waving a Hindu
flag--figuratively that is -- attempting to justify creation of a
Hindu India, even though never successfully or with any credibility,
knowing full well that they don't even believe in it. The only
explanation therefore would be that they believe that if they act just
like the objects of their abhorrence, Islamic fundamentalists, they
could contest them on an equal footing.
That to me seems like a very unintellectual pursuit.
What do you think?
Man, you got me going on a thesis here with a simple issue!
c-da :-)
At 1:50 PM -0500 6/12/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da,
> But if that is how you feel, why all the related stuff you wave even
> when you don't believe in :-)?
I think thats the conlusion that you seem to have arrived at. If you
had noticed, I don't wave such flags. Actually, I often find myself
defending Hinduism when OTHER religions are somehow portrayed as being
superior.
This often happens (whether its India or Hinduism) to some when they
suddenly find themselves in the West, and start having dim views of
India/Hinduism : The West seems to have brought 'religion' to them
overnight.
> Somehow the entire Hindu-secularists ( the oxymoron that is) are
> defined by that : They don't really believe in it, but still wave it
> around. It destroys their credibility, don't you think :-).
Sure it would. Its one thing to come to the defence of your beliefs
and totally another to brandish or wave it in someone's face.
Many a time, one comes does across netters who NOW realize that other
faiths such as Islam/Bhuddhism or even Christainity as the 'in thing'
or some new found salvation, and Hinduism or Indian traits as being
shameful or abhorrent.
That IMHO is akin to pseudo secularism.
--Ram
> But if that is how you feel, why all the related stuff you wave even
> when you don't believe in :-)?
> > Somehow the entire Hindu-secularists ( the oxymoron that is) are
> defined by that : They don't really believe in it, but still wave it
> around. It destroys their credibility, don't you think :-).
>
On 6/12/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ram:
>
>
> > > Schools ought to be like secular
> >governments, where religion is kept separate from their activities.
> >
> >Just my thoughts
>
>
> *** I agree.
>
> But if that is how you feel, why all the related stuff you wave even
> when you don't believe in :-)?
>
> Somehow the entire Hindu-secularists ( the oxymoron that is) are
> defined by that : They don't really believe in it, but still wave it
> around. It destroys their credibility, don't you think :-).
>
> c-da
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:21 PM -0500 6/12/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >Umesh,
> >
> >Yes, this faith stuff is all over the universities. I really do not
> >see any value for their presence in convocations. A Religious studies
> >department should be sufficient. Schools ought to be like secular
> >governments, where religion is kept separate from their activities.
> >
> >Just my thoughts
> >
> >--Ram da
> >
> >On 6/12/05, umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I think all Univs have chaplains of different faiths to say the commencement
> >> prayer. It depends upon whose trun it is that day. At Harvard's this year
> >> -it was the turn of the Christian chaplain, maybe next year it be of some
> >> other faith.
> >> Every day of the week a different faith's chaplain says the paryers in the
> >> prayer hall-atleast at Harvard.
> >>
> >> Umesh
> >>
> >> Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> C'da,
> >>
> >> I know news items like these are rather hard to digest:-)
> >>
> >> Honestly, IMHO, I think the whole thing is a bit over the top.
> >> Hinduism (or any other religion) does not and should not need an MIT
> >> or the White House to give its blessings.
> >>
> >> I don't think it served any purpose (for Hinduism or MIT) - except
> >> maybe to cause some discomfort to the Hindu/India bashers:-)
> >>
> >> --Ram
> >>
> >> On 6/12/05, Chan Mahanta wrote:
> >> > At 6:34 PM -0500 6/11/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >> > Here is some interesting bit of news from the halls of MIT. Hope itdoesn't
> >> > gag those netters who find everything wrong with India orHinduism.
> >> >
> >> > *** That was very timely.
> >> >
> >> > You really delivered a 'jen-kukur-ten-tangwn' wham to these ne'er-do-good
> >> > anti_indian, hindu-bashers. Making them gag in their own bilious blabber
> >> is
> >> > too kind a treatment for them and who deserve much worse.
> >> >
> >> > I mean just look at it, even MIT has, at long last, incorporated Hindu
> >> > chants
> >> > in their convocation invocations, thus purifying, in one fell swoop, all
> >> the
> >> > sins of commission and omission of the Hindu, something that even a deep
> >> > steep in the Ganga could not do.
> >> >
> >> > Time for all good Hindus of the world to rise and rejoice and for the
> >> > hindu-bashers to, at the very least, take a bow, if not offer a
> >> > 'xastange-pronipaat' with appropriate 'dokkhina' to the Brahman so they
> >> too
> >> > can reach Brahman.
> >> >
> >> > C-da :-)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Nevertheless hope y'all enjoy it.
> >> > --Ram______________________________________Issue Date:
> >> > Sunday, June 12, 2005Shanti, shanti rings out in MIT K.P. NAYAR
> >> Washington,
> >> > June 11: Five years after a Hindu priest gave the openingprayer on Capitol
> >> > Hill for the first time in the history of the USCongress, the
> >> Massachusetts
> >> > Institute of Technology (MIT) has followedsuit.
> >> > The 139th commencement ceremony of MIT, which has produced 59 NobelPrize
> >> > winners in all, began this year with an invocation in Sanskritand English.
> >> > "May we come together for a common purpose. Common be ourprayer, common
> >> our
> >> > goal," prayed Swami Tyagananda.
> >> > "May the one and the same Divine Reality lead us. May we be grantedclear
> >> > understanding and the courage to pursue the goals of socialjustice,
> >> > non-violence, harmony and peace."
> >> > The swami, who belongs to the Ramakrishna order and heads its
> >> Bostonbranch,
> >> > is MIT's Hindu chaplain. He has been in Boston since 1998,assigned to the
> >> > Vedanta Society there.
> >> > The presence of Swami Tyagananda apart, India was all over theceremony,
> > > > reflecting the dominant presence of Indian and IndianAmerican students at
> >> > prestigious US educational institutions. Amongthe speakers was Barun
> >> Singh,
> >> > president of the Graduate StudentCouncil, who saluted the Class of 2005.
> >> > "We celebrate the hope and promise of times to come in the world weall
> >> > share. You have demonstrated the ability to reason. Be open
> >> tounconventional
> >> > solutions. Keep alive your passion and drive. The worldneeds this, and it
> >> > waits for you," Singh said.
> >> > The president of the senior class presented MIT's president,
> >> SusanHockfield,
> >> > with a senior class gift - $31,000 this year - for a newstudent lounge.
> >> The
> >> > senior class president's name is Rohit Gupta.
> >> > Senior class gift is a tradition at MIT. Since 1935, they have so
> >> farraised
> >> > $138.56 million for MIT.
> >> > An Indian American from California, Sandhya Sitaraman, a brain
> >> andcognitive
> >> > sciences major, was among those graduating this year. Shewas a resident
> >> > academic adviser for three years at MIT's women's dorm,McCormick Hall.
> >> > "When I was accepted to MIT, many boys were surprised that a girlcould get
> >> > accepted to this institution," Sitaraman said. "My fouryears here have
> >> been
> >> > absolutely wonderful in terms of helping me growas an individual, and I
> >> > leave this place with many fond memories."
> >> > MIT said in a press release that the invocation in Sanskrit andEnglish
> >> > "reflected the large international crowd's spirit of unity andgoodwill" at
> >> > the commencement ceremony of this venerable institution.
> >> > Reflecting the diversity of the occasion, the chaplain said in hisprayer:
> >> > "May the one and the same Divine Reality who is the Father inheaven of the
> >> > Christians, Holy One of the Jewish faith, Allah of theMuslims, Buddha of
> >> the
> >> > Buddhists, Dao of the Chinese faith, AhuraMazda of the Zoroastrians, The
> >> > Great Spirit of the Native Americansand Brahman of the Hindus, lead us
> >> from
> >> > ignorance to knowledge, fromdarkness to light, from death to immortality."
> >> > He began his invocation with a quote from Swami Vivekananda thatsuited the
> >> > occasion: "Education is the manifestation of the perfectionalready within
> >> > us." He concluded with the chant, shanti, shanti,shanti.
> >> > The opening prayer at the US Congress by a Hindu priest in 2000 was onthe
> >> > occasion of then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's
> >> > visit.Venkatachalpathi Samuldrala, a priest from the Shiva Vishnu
> >> > Hindutemple in Parma, Ohio, was brought to Capitol Hill at the
> >> initiativeof
> >> > Sherrod Brown, a Congressman from Ohio.
> >> > During this year's Commencement ceremony, 1,094 MIT students
> >> > receivedbachelor's degrees, 1,078 received master's degrees, 257
> >> > gotdoctorates and 12 students were given engineering degrees, accordingto
> >> an
> >> > MIT press release.
> >> > _______________________________________________
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