C'da, > *** This confuses me, AGAIN. Is India and Hinduism synonymous? I mean, of > all people, to someone like you ? >
Of course not. Its just that they seem to have dim views on (a) India and (b) Hinduism. Maybe, the further west (from India) they travel, the dimmer the views :-). And of course, there is nothing wrong in pointing out 'problems' with desi-demokrasy or functioning of GOA or GOI. Those are all debatable points, and make good discussion - as long as they are within reason. >You, as a fair minded person, will be remiss if you did not point that out or > challenge these pseudo-intellectuals. Heh! heh! You are being too kind. Even though I don't consider myself an intellectual to lecture them pseudos, what some of them really need is another 'Ganga sthaan' (one in the Bhorolu nodi will also do) to realize that pseudo-intellectual comparisons of religions is a futile exercise. > If practitioners of a certain religion does certain unbecoming > things that would not be approved by the faith, it ought not to > reflect on the essence of the faith or its good name, should it? It shouldn't, as long as someone doesn't tell me that a Hindu stiffing the IRS really reflects traits of Hinduism: ie had this person been a Christian/Muslim or even an atheist, he wouldn't have stiffed the tax company. > For instance if a Hindu, keeps up all the superficial trappings of > the faith, like a smear of vermilion, Gayatri mantra rcitals, > temple going and puja performing, donating money to build temples > and all such important things, but at the same time cheats on their > wives, I think you are mixing up practices with faith. For instance, I do not condone the practice of animal sacrifice in the Kamakhyya or the practice of animals during Idd. Both practices are despicable. And it would be more apalling for someone to justify that one practice is somehow better than the other. Smearing vermillion or reciting the Gayatri Mantra do not hurt any one (as long as they are done in a temple or home).While cheating on wives is not just confines itself to Hindus males - and really has nothing to do with religion. >Oh some do indulge in defending Hinduism when they fear it is under attack by >them Jihadis -- you for example. But that is a political reaction, not religious. Heh! heh! heh! - I don't know about jehadis on the horizon. but I do defend Hinduism specially when some try to attack it on its principles, and at the same time sing praises of some other religion -maybe they were political reactions on their part, but the affect is the same. > That is why I get quite curious about those waving a Hindu > flag--figuratively that is -- attempting to justify creation of a Hindu > India, even though never successfully or with any credibility, knowing full > well that they don't even believe in it. I really do not subscribe to such open displays. Hindu nation: My thoughts - If India is 'failing' as a secular state (as some netters believe), and if the demographics are such that it will be impossible for Hindus and Muslims to coexist, the country may be forced to become a :Hindu State. - an a la Pakistan. This is highly unlikely. And I do prefer India remain a secular state, where rights and preferences and responsibilities are (not based on religion) the same for all. That is a Hindu should not get a govt. grant to go to Kasi Yatra, and a Muslim should not get one for a Haj pilgrimage. Fo exampe. when some netter tries to justify that only Muslims should get those grants but not Hindus, is when those flag-waving (figuratively again) guys come out of the woodwork. > would be that they believe that if they act just like the objects of their > abhorrence, Islamic fundamentalists, they could contest them on an equal > footing. Ah yes, some may think that, but you should find netters far nore intelligent than that (hopefully). --Ram On 6/12/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Ram: > > > If you > had noticed, I don't wave such flags. Actually, I often find myself > defending Hinduism when OTHER religions are somehow portrayed as being > >superior. > > > *** That is certainly a generous thing for you to do--to come the defense > of the underdog. I do that myself once in a while. Well, come to think of > it, I probably do that a lot. > > But I don't know that there have been many attempts at portraying Islam or > Christianity etc., the most significant competitors of Hinduism for > salvation, being touted as superior to it. Or even for political > expediencies. But then again I know I miss stuff often too. So we will let > that pass. > > > This often happens (whether its India or Hinduism) to some when they > suddenly find themselves in the West, and start having dim views of > India/Hinduism : The West seems to have brought 'religion' to them > >overnight. > > > *** This confuses me, AGAIN. Is India and Hinduism synonymous? I mean, of > all people, to someone like you ? > > But the other thing, these new converts talking down their compatriots' > faith and the like, surely is crass, uncouth, unsophisticated. You, as a > fair minded person, will be remiss if you did not point that out or > challenge these pseudo-intellectuals. I am with you on that. > > Also, good to learn, at long last, the definition of 'pseudo intellectual'. > Always baffled me you know? > > > *** But---you know how these buts keep appearing like nasty pop-ups on the > internet -- I have a question. See if you csan help me out here: > > If practitioners of a certain religion does certain unbecoming > things that would not be approved by the faith, it ought not to > reflect on the essence of the faith or its good name, should it? > > For instance if a Hindu, keeps up all the superficial trappings of > the faith, like a smear of vermilion, Gayatri mantra rcitals, > temple going and puja performing, donating money to build temples > and > all such important things, but at the same time cheats on their > wives, > or their taxes or indulges in usury, practices casteism --stuff > like > that -- that could not be held against their faith, right? After > all there is such a thing as free will too, wouldn't you agree? > > If so, why should the truly faithful be perturbed, if someone > criticizes > the bad practitioners? If they do, then it amounts to 'bator kosu > tikat ghonhi lowa', don't you think? Unless they are worried that > maybe their faith is quite ineffective in helping their > practitioners > in conducting an ethical life that is? > > There are other example one could give, but I am sure you get the > main idea. > > > > Sure it would. Its one thing to come to the defence of your beliefs > >and totally another to brandish or wave it in someone's face. > > *** You are right. It is a subtle difference, not always apparent. > > > Many a time, one comes does across netters who NOW realize that other > faiths such as Islam/Bhuddhism or even Christainity as the 'in thing' > or some new found salvation, and Hinduism or Indian traits as being > >shameful or abhorrent. > > *** I am sure that happens once in a while. But that is not like the > exception proving the rule though. I didn't realize that ANY religion is > really "IN" in Assam net. My gut feeling is that most of us here are, by and > large, not even religious in the traditional sense. Oh some do indulge in > defending Hinduism when they fear it is under attack by them Jihadis -- you > for example. But that is a political reaction, not religious. > > That is why I get quite curious about those waving a Hindu > flag--figuratively that is -- attempting to justify creation of a Hindu > India, even though never successfully or with any credibility, knowing full > well that they don't even believe in it. The only explanation therefore > would be that they believe that if they act just like the objects of their > abhorrence, Islamic fundamentalists, they could contest them on an equal > footing. > > That to me seems like a very unintellectual pursuit. > > What do you think? > > Man, you got me going on a thesis here with a simple issue! > > c-da :-) > > > > At 1:50 PM -0500 6/12/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > C'da, > > > > But if that is how you feel, why all the related stuff you wave even > > when you don't believe in :-)? > I think thats the conlusion that you seem to have arrived at. If you > had noticed, I don't wave such flags. Actually, I often find myself > defending Hinduism when OTHER religions are somehow portrayed as being > superior. > This often happens (whether its India or Hinduism) to some when they > suddenly find themselves in the West, and start having dim views of > India/Hinduism : The West seems to have brought 'religion' to them > overnight. > > > Somehow the entire Hindu-secularists ( the oxymoron that is) are > > defined by that : They don't really believe in it, but still wave it > > around. It destroys their credibility, don't you think :-). > Sure it would. Its one thing to come to the defence of your beliefs > and totally another to brandish or wave it in someone's face. > Many a time, one comes does across netters who NOW realize that other > faiths such as Islam/Bhuddhism or even Christainity as the 'in thing' > or some new found salvation, and Hinduism or Indian traits as being > shameful or abhorrent. > > That IMHO is akin to pseudo secularism. > > --Ram > > > > > But if that is how you feel, why all the related stuff you wave even > > when you don't believe in :-)? > > > Somehow the entire Hindu-secularists ( the oxymoron that is) are > > defined by that : They don't really believe in it, but still wave it > > around. It destroys their credibility, don't you think :-). > > > > > > On 6/12/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ram: > > > > > > > > Schools ought to be like secular > > >governments, where religion is kept separate from their activities. > > > > > >Just my thoughts > > > > > > *** I agree. > > > > But if that is how you feel, why all the related stuff you wave even > > when you don't believe in :-)? > > > > Somehow the entire Hindu-secularists ( the oxymoron that is) are > > defined by that : They don't really believe in it, but still wave it > > around. It destroys their credibility, don't you think :-). > > > > c-da > > > > > > > > > > > > At 12:21 PM -0500 6/12/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >Umesh, > > > > > >Yes, this faith stuff is all over the universities. I really do not > > >see any value for their presence in convocations. A Religious studies > > >department should be sufficient. Schools ought to be like secular > > >governments, where religion is kept separate from their activities. > > > > > >Just my thoughts > > > > > >--Ram da > > > > > >On 6/12/05, umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> I think all Univs have chaplains of different faiths to say the > commencement > > >> prayer. It depends upon whose trun it is that day. At Harvard's this > year > > >> -it was the turn of the Christian chaplain, maybe next year it be of > some > > >> other faith. > > >> Every day of the week a different faith's chaplain says the paryers in > the > > >> prayer hall-atleast at Harvard. > > >> > > >> Umesh > > >> > > >> Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> C'da, > > >> > > >> I know news items like these are rather hard to digest:-) > > >> > > >> Honestly, IMHO, I think the whole thing is a bit over the top. > > >> Hinduism (or any other religion) does not and should not need an MIT > > >> or the White House to give its blessings. > > >> > > >> I don't think it served any purpose (for Hinduism or MIT) - except > > >> maybe to cause some discomfort to the Hindu/India bashers:-) > > >> > > >> --Ram > > >> > > >> On 6/12/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > >> > At 6:34 PM -0500 6/11/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >> > Here is some interesting bit of news from the halls of MIT. Hope > itdoesn't > > >> > gag those netters who find everything wrong with India orHinduism. > > >> > > > >> > *** That was very timely. > > >> > > > >> > You really delivered a 'jen-kukur-ten-tangwn' wham to these > ne'er-do-good > > >> > anti_indian, hindu-bashers. Making them gag in their own bilious > blabber > > >> is > > >> > too kind a treatment for them and who deserve much worse. > > >> > > > >> > I mean just look at it, even MIT has, at long last, incorporated > Hindu > > >> > chants > > >> > in their convocation invocations, thus purifying, in one fell swoop, > all > > >> the > > >> > sins of commission and omission of the Hindu, something that even a > deep > > >> > steep in the Ganga could not do. > > >> > > > >> > Time for all good Hindus of the world to rise and rejoice and for > the > > >> > hindu-bashers to, at the very least, take a bow, if not offer a > > >> > 'xastange-pronipaat' with appropriate 'dokkhina' to the Brahman so > they > > >> too > > >> > can reach Brahman. > > >> > > > >> > C-da :-) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Nevertheless hope y'all enjoy it. > > >> > --Ram______________________________________Issue > Date: > > >> > Sunday, June 12, 2005Shanti, shanti rings out in MIT K.P. NAYAR > > >> Washington, > > >> > June 11: Five years after a Hindu priest gave the openingprayer on > Capitol > > >> > Hill for the first time in the history of the USCongress, the > > >> Massachusetts > > >> > Institute of Technology (MIT) has followedsuit. > > >> > The 139th commencement ceremony of MIT, which has produced 59 > NobelPrize > > >> > winners in all, began this year with an invocation in Sanskritand > English. > > >> > "May we come together for a common purpose. Common be ourprayer, > common > > >> our > > >> > goal," prayed Swami Tyagananda. > > >> > "May the one and the same Divine Reality lead us. May we be > grantedclear > > >> > understanding and the courage to pursue the goals of socialjustice, > > >> > non-violence, harmony and peace." > > >> > The swami, who belongs to the Ramakrishna order and heads its > > >> Bostonbranch, > > >> > is MIT's Hindu chaplain. He has been in Boston since 1998,assigned > to the > > >> > Vedanta Society there. > > >> > The presence of Swami Tyagananda apart, India was all over > theceremony, > > > > > reflecting the dominant presence of Indian and IndianAmerican > students at > > >> > prestigious US educational institutions. Amongthe speakers was Barun > > >> Singh, > > >> > president of the Graduate StudentCouncil, who saluted the Class of > 2005. > > >> > "We celebrate the hope and promise of times to come in the world > weall > > >> > share. You have demonstrated the ability to reason. Be open > > >> tounconventional > > >> > solutions. Keep alive your passion and drive. The worldneeds this, > and it > > >> > waits for you," Singh said. > > >> > The president of the senior class presented MIT's president, > > >> SusanHockfield, > > >> > with a senior class gift - $31,000 this year - for a newstudent > lounge. > > >> The > > >> > senior class president's name is Rohit Gupta. > > >> > Senior class gift is a tradition at MIT. Since 1935, they have so > > >> farraised > > >> > $138.56 million for MIT. > > >> > An Indian American from California, Sandhya Sitaraman, a brain > > >> andcognitive > > >> > sciences major, was among those graduating this year. Shewas a > resident > > >> > academic adviser for three years at MIT's women's dorm,McCormick > Hall. > > >> > "When I was accepted to MIT, many boys were surprised that a > girlcould get > > >> > accepted to this institution," Sitaraman said. "My fouryears here > have > > >> been > > >> > absolutely wonderful in terms of helping me growas an individual, > and I > > >> > leave this place with many fond memories." > > >> > MIT said in a press release that the invocation in Sanskrit > andEnglish > > >> > "reflected the large international crowd's spirit of unity > andgoodwill" at > > >> > the commencement ceremony of this venerable institution. > > >> > Reflecting the diversity of the occasion, the chaplain said in > hisprayer: > > >> > "May the one and the same Divine Reality who is the Father inheaven > of the > > >> > Christians, Holy One of the Jewish faith, Allah of theMuslims, > Buddha of > > >> the > > >> > Buddhists, Dao of the Chinese faith, AhuraMazda of the Zoroastrians, > The > > >> > Great Spirit of the Native Americansand Brahman of the Hindus, lead > us > > >> from > > >> > ignorance to knowledge, fromdarkness to light, from death to > immortality." > > >> > He began his invocation with a quote from Swami Vivekananda > thatsuited the > > >> > occasion: "Education is the manifestation of the perfectionalready > within > > >> > us." He concluded with the chant, shanti, shanti,shanti. > > >> > The opening prayer at the US Congress by a Hindu priest in 2000 was > onthe > > >> > occasion of then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's > > >> > visit.Venkatachalpathi Samuldrala, a priest from the Shiva Vishnu > > >> > Hindutemple in Parma, Ohio, was brought to Capitol Hill at the > > >> initiativeof > > >> > Sherrod Brown, a Congressman from Ohio. > > >> > During this year's Commencement ceremony, 1,094 MIT students > > >> > receivedbachelor's degrees, 1,078 received master's degrees, 257 > > >> > gotdoctorates and 12 students were given engineering degrees, > accordingto > > >> an > > >> > MIT press release. > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Assam mailing list > > >> > [email protected] > > >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > >> > > > >> > Mailing list FAQ: > > >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > >> > To unsubscribe or change options: > > >> > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Assam mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > >> > > >> Mailing list FAQ: > > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > >> To unsubscribe or change options: > > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > >> > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> Yahoo! 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