Dear Mark, boy did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or what today!
Generally I am just a "lurker" but I do think this business of rectums and small brains and big and little dicks is just a little more than over the top and certainly not necessary and has no constructive point. And what the hell was the Aryan reference in there for?? Ron Sanders _____ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark Rowe Sent: Monday, 27 April 2009 7:56 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA matters. Now there is an argument. Lets break it down then: The "GFA" needs to be completely blown up to actually work? yes/no/maybe Scary thought that one. The "GFA" fails at retaining members ? yes/no/maybe? Mike is right? yes/no/never ever ever? The "GFA" do not financially support Joey Glide? yes/no I already answered the licence one i believe? if you need convincing ring CASA and ask for a glider pilot licence! Good luck, i tried for 2 years.. The "GFA" are at fault for the decline in gliding locally or globally? yes/no/maybe? LOL I will leave the brain bit out hey, incrimination and the thought of tweesers to pee and all.:-) Robert Hart was elected to the GFA board based on his strong negative views of the GFA board, among many others. Its a hard balancing act to keep everyone happy, so i guess its no surprise that some want a red one rather than a blue one!! I believe Robert has done a great job whilst on the board and i hope he remains so that the "corporate knowledge" is not thrown out with the bathwater. Over the past 20 years i have seen competition gliding nearly completely cease only to be resurected into competitions where we have way to many entries for a normal club to cater for. Thats an example of change, we may not like the changes but its going to happen anyway. If you want completely "fair" joing the aryan revolution, not a lot of future in that if you dont have blue eyes and blond hair. Cheers Mark _____ From: davidlaw...@hotmail.com To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:27:36 +0000 Subject: [Aus-soaring] GFA matters. Hi all, Mark worte; "If a change does not get made to the constitution all corporate knowledge will be lost by mandate every 2 years, (Thats Bad). This being the 5 + years of corporate knowledge that has made the GFA the utter failure it is in retaining members? Frankly, I would rather see something, anything different to be tried. For once (And only once (-: ) I have to agree with Mike B, its just an expenses paid hobby for some- and the proposal to extend terms is simply a method to continue the current situation. Mike is NOT the first person to make a comment to me along these lines. The clincher for me is that the GFA contributes nothing to help our young members attend Joey glide, but last year gave $45,000 to international team members. This has zero effect on retention. One person has done more to help juniors than the entire GFA, Andrew Horton of the Balaklava club has for the last 2 years paid 1/2 the tow costs for entrants, good onya Andrew, nice to see someone who recognizes how important juniors are. "The reasons the GFA resisted the CASA alternative are based on non publisised arguments that i should not go into" Why on earth should you not tell us, the members, why the GFA takes any action? Sounds very strange and suspicious to me, though not surprising. "Gliding is in decline due to many influences like cost, other alternatives like RAA and social presures that were not about 20 years ago, to blame it on the GFA's policies and structure is very simplistic." Just because something is simple in no way indicates it is not correct. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. Perhaps rather than wanting to have cake and eat it they would like to choose their own cake rather than the mandatory GFA cake? "I would rather have a small brain and a big dxxx anyway." You said it Mark. Is that a requirement for GFA board membership? If that is so there is no way I am having half of my brain removed so I can be a part of the administration, otherwise I am apparently well qualified (-: ! Fact is I wouldnt want to get involved in the current system, which is a classic example of groupthink. Like the Borg in star trek, people are either assimilated or die (leave in frustration). Even those with the best of ideas and intention are effected. R Beutler wrote; "I do know that we have an organisation where you can get yourself elected if others agree with you perhaps that is the real issue here"? Stop it please Rolf I am dying of laughter here, I am afraid that if you have radical ides for change you can forget it you can't get elected to the board without being part of the groupthink mentality that has a gerrymander on the current undemocratic system by which the board is chosen. I discussed this with a board member one day and asked him if he believed in democracy as the best form of government. He expressed his belief in democracy-as long apparently as the GFA was not involved. The irony was to say the least amusing. "common thread is that gliding is in some decline in some areas, the why and how long may change" Well nothing has changed for at least the last 20 years, how long should we wait? Ironically lack of change is exactly the problem Whilst I find Mikes posts on this subject a little strong at times, I have to agree with his general assesment and can understand his frustration at the current arrangements. Not that I expect anything to change, I am now convinced there is no long term future for our sport unfortunately, the current adminstration likes it the way it is an makes no proposal to allow members any real say in the way things are done. (Nero fiddled whilst Rome burned too if I remember my history. Whilst this situation continues so will the decline to inevitable death( Or growth for the RAA to put it another way) Jack Iggulden over 20 years ago wrote of his fears that the GFA would become the beurocracy it was created to aviod. Saldy his prediction has come to pass. Regards Dave L > > > Gliding is in decline due to many influences like cost, other alternatives like RAA and social presures that were not about 20 years ago, to blame it on the GFA's policies and structure is very simplistic. > > > CASA itself offered a way out a few years ago but the proposal was > > terminated with extreme prejudice by the GFA. I've raised this on > > numerous occasions here but nobody has been game to say why. The > > proposal would not have prevented the GFA operating exactly as it > > does today for those who wanted that. > > > The reasons the GFA resisted the CASA alternative are based on non publisised arguments that i should not go into, needles to say some want to have their cake and eat it also. > > Maybe suporting the organisation that suports your wants would make things seem more "fair and democratic"? > > > > Most of the posters here who are happy with the way things are see > > their own club and maybe go to the odd contest. I communicate with > > people from all over the country and internationally re the state of > > the sport. It has been an ugly picture for a long time with Australia > > one of the worst. We'll see how many glider manufacturers are left in 5 years. > > > Obviously you dont speak with the same people i do, the only common thread is that gliding is in some decline in some areas, the why and how long may change. Keep in mind at all times, change is inevitable, you can embrace it and also change (learn) or fear it and throw stones (witch hunting i think they called it). > > > > If you truly disagree with the state of things do something about it and get involved, working to find solutions is always harder than sitting at a computer complaining without puting forward benificial options. There are defined paths to take for a reason, anarchy is a show on foxtel. > > > > Mark Rowe. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Aus-soaring mailing list > > >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > >To check or change subscription details, visit: > > >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Looking to change your car this year? Find car news, reviews and more > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2 Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fa i%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20090 427/2e4b109e/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:52:03 +1000 > From: "rolf a. buelter" <rbuel...@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] I'm happy with the GFA > To: aus soaring <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Message-ID: <bay121-w50c7e90d61a8c8a3a1fd3ec0...@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > For a while now I have been wondering, what's wrong with me as I don't object to an occasional check flight with a peer nor a second pair of eyes going over my glider after rigging. Thanks to Mr. Borgelt's valuable insight I now know that I'm just a sucker for punishment and my brain is small. > > > > The always miserable Mr. Buelter > > > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:22:23 +1000 > > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] I'm happy with the GFA > > > > At 01:44 PM 26/04/2009, you wrote: > > >Yes, I AM happy with the GFA. About every 3 years I just cannot help myself > > >and commit an unsafe act . replying on this website. > > > > > >Dave, on behalf of the majority of Oz glider pilots I would like to thank > > >you and the other GFA Board Members for the work you do on our behalf. > > >Criticism presented in a non-constructive manner reflects badly on all > > >members and makes previously contented people unhappy: as well as that it > > >drives new members away. The GFA Board and staff (those that I know) have > > >always been helpful to me when I needed something and my club provides me > > >with a well run and safe environment for my recreational activity of choice. > > > > > > Your club could do this irrespective of the GFA although if you think > > any gliding club is a safe environment you need to look around more. > > Aviation is dangerous. > > > > > > > > >I appreciate that those involved at state and federal level often travel > > >large distances and spend much of their time working for gliding in Oz with > > >minimum remuneration for out-of-pocket expenses. On behalf of most members, > > >thank you! > > > > The long term members of the GFA bureaucracy have a hobby of being > > amateur aviation regulatory bureaucrats. They have people like you > > paying for their hobby and while you do they will do lots of it > > unfortunately. They really ought to pay for their own hobby. I was > > SAGA Airfields and Airspace Officer for a few years. I didn't claim > > the travel expenses nor most of the time (only once I think) as a > > club delegate to SAGA. There wasn't any altruism in this as I needed > > airspace in which to fly gliders. > > > > > > > > >I do not find the level of supervision, independent control checks, annual > > >checks, independent operator requirements and annual fees excessive (try GA > > >for a comparison). > > > > I'm 100% behind your right to have as much supervision, dual, triple > > or quadruple control checks etc as you want. Nobody will stand in > > your way. I don't understand this but then in the middle ages some > > people wore hair shirts and whipped themselves and if you go to the > > right part of town I'm told you can get as much of that as you will > > pay for. Fortunately it isn't mandatory. > > > > As for the comparison to GA, is this from experience or are you > > relying on the GFA mythology for this? I hold a PPL and fly an > > experimental homebuilt. Really much less frustrating than dealing with GFA. > > > > > I cannot comment on other issues raised (experimental > > >certificates, etc) as I know little about them, but I do know that we have > > >an organisation where you can get yourself elected if others agree with you > > >. perhaps that is the real issue here? > > > > I promise you that I have zero intention of wanting to be on the GFA > > board or any other position in it. I've been there, done that. Total > > waste of time. > > > > You are in an organisation that spends your money on marketing and > > development to no visible effect, attracts 1000 new members a year > > (40% of total membership) and loses ALL of them on average. Of course > > you and others here are happy with the GFA, evidently thousands > > aren't, as they leave or have left. Many are now in RAAus(8000 or so > > members and increasing last I heard). > > > > Mike > > > > > > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments > > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > Int'l + 61 429 355784 > > email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _________________________________________________________________ > Looking for a fresh way to share photos? Get the new Windows Live Messenger. > http://download.live.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20090 427/3251955e/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:04:15 +1000 > From: Mark Rowe <justsoar...@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] I'm happy with the GFA > To: <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Message-ID: <blu143-w20f3758ca577cec830371bb8...@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > Note; Dual inspections are the single largest improvement to aviation safety ever. And it was first implemented by the RAAF i believe, something to be proud of. > > > > Dont be miserable, your small brain must work really well if you think its smart, i do also. > > Small computers are amazing these days. > > I would rather have a small brain and a big dxxx anyway. > > > > Mark > > > From: rbuel...@hotmail.com > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:52:03 +1000 > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] I'm happy with the GFA > > > > For a while now I have been wondering, what's wrong with me as I don't object to an occasional check flight with a peer nor a second pair of eyes going over my glider after rigging. Thanks to Mr. Borgelt's valuable insight I now know that I'm just a sucker for punishment and my brain is small. > > The always miserable Mr. Buelter > > > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:22:23 +1000 > > To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > From: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] I'm happy with the GFA > > > > At 01:44 PM 26/04/2009, you wrote: > > >Yes, I AM happy with the GFA. About every 3 years I just cannot help myself > > >and commit an unsafe act . replying on this website. > > > > > >Dave, on behalf of the majority of Oz glider pilots I would like to thank > > >you and the other GFA Board Members for the work you do on our behalf. > > >Criticism presented in a non-constructive manner reflects badly on all > > >members and makes previously contented people unhappy: as well as that it > > >drives new members away. The GFA Board and staff (those that I know) have > > >always been helpful to me when I needed something and my club provides me > > >with a well run and safe environment for my recreational activity of choice. > > > > > > Your club could do this irrespective of the GFA although if you think > > any gliding club is a safe environment you need to look around more. > > Aviation is dangerous. > > > > > > > > >I appreciate that those involved at state and federal level often travel > > >large distances and spend much of their time working for gliding in Oz with > > >minimum remuneration for out-of-pocket expenses. On behalf of most members, > > >thank you! > > > > The long term members of the GFA bureaucracy have a hobby of being > > amateur aviation regulatory bureaucrats. They have people like you > > paying for their hobby and while you do they will do lots of it > > unfortunately. They really ought to pay for their own hobby. I was > > SAGA Airfields and Airspace Officer for a few years. I didn't claim > > the travel expenses nor most of the time (only once I think) as a > > club delegate to SAGA. There wasn't any altruism in this as I needed > > airspace in which to fly gliders. > > > > > > > > >I do not find the level of supervision, independent control checks, annual > > >checks, independent operator requirements and annual fees excessive (try GA > > >for a comparison). > > > > I'm 100% behind your right to have as much supervision, dual, triple > > or quadruple control checks etc as you want. Nobody will stand in > > your way. I don't understand this but then in the middle ages some > > people wore hair shirts and whipped themselves and if you go to the > > right part of town I'm told you can get as much of that as you will > > pay for. Fortunately it isn't mandatory. > > > > As for the comparison to GA, is this from experience or are you > > relying on the GFA mythology for this? I hold a PPL and fly an > > experimental homebuilt. Really much less frustrating than dealing with GFA. > > > > > I cannot comment on other issues raised (experimental > > >certificates, etc) as I know little about them, but I do know that we have > > >an organisation where you can get yourself elected if others agree with you > > >. perhaps that is the real issue here? > > > > I promise you that I have zero intention of wanting to be on the GFA > > board or any other position in it. I've been there, done that. Total > > waste of time. > > > > You are in an organisation that spends your money on marketing and > > development to no visible effect, attracts 1000 new members a year > > (40% of total membership) and loses ALL of them on average. Of course > > you and others here are happy with the GFA, evidently thousands > > aren't, as they leave or have left. Many are now in RAAus(8000 or so > > members and increasing last I heard). > > > > Mike > > > > > > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments > > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > Int'l + 61 429 355784 > > email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > Get the new Windows Live Messenger. Looking for a fresh way to share photos? > _________________________________________________________________ > Looking for a fresh way to share photos? Get the new Windows Live Messenger. > http://download.live.com/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20090 427/3dfea44e/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 67, Issue 50 > ******************************************* _____ Find car news, reviews and more Looking <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http://secure-au.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bi n/a/ci_450304/et_2/cg_801459/pi_1004813/ai_859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07& _m=EXT> to change your car this year? _____ Find car news, reviews and more Looking to change your car this year? <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide% 2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2F ai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT>
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