Hi Tom,
Good stuff.
Mats post pointing to the YouTube video (which was graphic), on the Toulouse
test was also good. Hadn't even thought about elderly passengers - good point.
I note that in the video there was one injury, but everyone in the test looked
young and fit. Didn't realise they were all staff (can we therefore assume they
were given a very good briefing before the event?), but boy there was a lot of
them - was it 800 plus? All out in 78 seconds through 8 of the 16 exits is an
amazing result, but I wonder how it might equate in a real emergency/crash? For
example how fire-proof are the slides themselves? In a real situation where are
the passengers being chuted to - maybe over a cliff??? or into a ravine??, or
into a morass?? or into an inferno of burning Jet A??
Do you have any thoughts on setting an upper design limit to the number of
passengers one aircraft should carry, from a emergency management/total
disaster point of view? Is the A380 already past this threshold?
Re tyres, what I was alluding to here, was some wheels locking up (no ABS), on
the landing roll, and therefore tyres abraded through (and possibly catching
fire in the process), in seconds and the aircraft then going completely out of
control. I take Mats point (and video evidence), of the brakes themselves
catching fire, but that is another issue entirely, and not what I was talking
about.
Thanks for explaining the total main wheel change, prior to moving the aircraft.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: tom claffey
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 4 Corners story on QF32
Certification requires a test evacuation of all passengers in 90
seconds with half doors unusable. Done in Toulouse with Airbus staff. However
with our older passengers there will be broken bones and probably fatalities
from the top deck, hence the correct decision to wait. A tyre fire is a small
problem. After any hot stop like this the tyres will deflate due to plugs
melting in wheels to avoid tyres blowing out, therefore a total main wheel
change to move aircraft.
Tom
--- On Wed, 30/3/11, gstev...@bigpond.com <gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote:
From: gstev...@bigpond.com <gstev...@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 4 Corners story on QF32
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
Received: Wednesday, 30 March, 2011, 10:28 PM
Michael,
On the evidence of the ABC Report, I think your last paragraph says
it all!
I suspect that your reason for stating why they were 50 tons
overweight on landing might be incorrect, or at least a subject of debate.
Comments?
I do not understand (in point 2), your reference to Qantas and
coordination of the engine/mainframe maintenance. I would appreciate
amplification here, and the significance of this statement.
Point 3 - I guess that after an hour the brakes may have cooled a
bit, especially if they are being given special attention by the fire brigade!
In the end, all the passengers walked off this aircraft, but I guess that if
they were chuted out, or whatever, (how many chutes available?),in an
emergency, the evacuation time would be MUCH less. Does anybody have any facts
- perhaps derived from real tests as opposed to computer simulations - as to
what this time might be for a full passenger compliment on this aircraft type?
Regardless, I suspect that everybody on board was bloody lucky that the
aircraft did not burn on the ground, and that they did not have to undertake an
emergency evacuation - read extreme loss of life! I particularly noted the
comment of the Captain, who declared (in essence), that, in the event, he could
have braked the aircraft to a full stop a little short of the runway end, but
he could see the fire tenders ahead, and this was where he was going. "These
are my friends". In fire prevention circles, this might possibly be an ultimate
statement, that fire-fighters could use to promote their cause!
Point 4 - it would seem that large amounts of water were initially
hosed into the running engine in an attempt to stop it, but without success.
The use of a retardant in the water finally did the job. Anybody got any
comments here? {e g Why wasn't this used as the first mode of attack?}
It would seem that one of the points (understated?), that was made by
the Captain was the (huge?), risk of setting on fire the tires on the wheels
that had lost their ABS function, during the landing process. It would seem
obviously this would have been totally catastrophic. Some of the images taken
after the event, show wheels being replaced- maybe all wheels? - before the
aircraft was moved to the storage hangar.
Regards,
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Shirley
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 4 Corners story on QF32
Unevenly bored oil pipe and full powered take off from LAX was
mentioned, though briefly, however four matters (I have read about) were not
mentioned:
1.. The inability to move fuel from the tail tank meant the
calculation of CofG was vitally important if they were to get the nose wheel
down on landing and prevent the aircraft departing the runway, due the 5kts
cross wind. That severely limited their ability to reduce AUW to the landing
max – they chose to land 50 tonnes over weight to be sure of directional
control.
2.. RR as the engine managers, should have told Qantas
maintenance staff that they knew of the potential fault, they did not, though
Qantas (alone in the world) lacks a body coordinating engine:mainframe
maintenance.
3.. It took nearly 2 hours to get the passengers off from one
rear door – away from the running #1 and the high pressure fuel leaking from
the wing adjacent to the 900 degree brakes.
4.. The Changi Fire Dept understandably refused to put any of
their assets in front of the running #1 to cool down the brakes and disperse
the leaking fuel away from the wheels – an hour later they agreed to try and
drown the engine.
They were so very lucky they (accidentally) had two surplus senior
pilots available to assist in sorting out the flood of error messages that
would have overwhelmed a normal crew – they were brilliant.
Michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Nelson Handcock
Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:24 AM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Aus-soaring] 4 Corners story on QF32
Somewhat off-topic perhaps, but the 4 Corners report on the
uncontained engine failure on the A380 was (I thought) very interesting.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110328/qantas/
I don't feel that they really gave enough emphasis to the root
cause - which seems to be a unevenly bored oil-pipe that was further weakened
by a number of full-power take-offs on shorter runways....Admittedly Rolls
Royce did not participate which is a shame because the report could have gone
into more depth...
I believe a number of list recipients are commercial pilots - I'm
wondering what your opinions are on the incident (if you are able to voice
such) and also on the quality and accuracy of the report?
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