Soon after I had withdrawn from the team for Hungary (because I could not present the LBA with an ICAO compliant licence, which I needed to do if I was to fly a German registered EB-28 in Hungary) I received a charming email from the Licencing Department of the CAA confirming that my BGA licence was ICAO compliant. This would have satisfied the LBA. As far as I know, the British training system is no better, nor significantly different, from ours. Yet the BGA's relationship with their controlling body appears to be constructive. Most importantly, there was a pleasant air of respect in the message from the CAA gentleman.
-----Original Message----- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Monday, 25 August 2014 3:59 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes As I understand it that process might have been based on "goodwill" or some other cooperation regime because when the BGA "license" was first introduced it was not ICAO compliant as i understand it. And probably it was only to fly German registered sailplanes IN Germany. I would say that if it was not for a German registered glider to be flown in Germany then Matthew just got away with it. I do not know how far down the line the BGA is with is EASA compliance but at the end of the road I would say you BGA license is still not really any good unless the UK CAA has its stamp upon it. Ron S On 25 August 2014 13:19, Michael Scutter <michael_scut...@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > Bak in the good days (2011), Matthew got a British licence based on his "c" > certificate and a recent scan of his log book showing he had done more > than > 5 hours flying in a year. > > The CEO of the BGA, also sent a copy of a letter from the BAA (British > equivalent of CASA). It said the BGA was higher than required to an > ICO licence. > > I sent the letter to the LBA (the German equivalent of CASA) along > with a copy of his BGA licence. > > LBA responded " you can fly in Germany. The person registering Matt > for the comp, looked at the letter from the LBA and said no problems. > If they say you can, then you can. > > The system we have not, surely could be better, like this example. > > Michael > > On 25 Aug 2014, at 1:37 pm, Mike Borgelt > <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> > wrote: > > Michael, > > You are of course correct. > > It is ridiculous. Not only that, I suspect ICAO never envisaged a > qualification for recognition by another country that wasn't to be > recognised in the holder's home country. > > If I was a bureaucrat working for EASA or the FAA licencing > departments I sure wouldn't recognise one of those. I'd reckon it was "intent > to deceive". > > Come to think of it, from a conversation I had a long time ago with an > FAA general aviation office employee they regard recognition of > foreign qualifications as being contingent on said qualification > allowing you to fly legally in your home country. > > Oops. > > Mike > > At 12:47 PM 25/08/2014, you wrote: > > For what it's worth, a credential that can't be used in Australia > reflects badly on Australian pilots. > > There is this extra step (paper work), that Australia does not > recognise, but expects other countries to. It's not funny, it's ridiculous. > > Michael > > On 25 Aug 2014, at 7:04 am, "Christopher McDonnell" > <wommamuku...@bigpond.com > wrote: > > Well, what will be needed re paperwork to fly a glider out from under > the umbrella in the rain? <wlEmoticon-smile[1].png> > > > > From: Christopher Thorpe > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:13 PM > To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no > clothes > > Ron > > Refer to CASR 61 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C00046: > > 61.1510 Privileges of glider pilot licences > 61.1520 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot > licences—recennt experience > 61.1525 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot > licences—flighht review > 61.1530 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot > licences—mediccal certificates > 61.1535 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot > licences—carriiage of documents > > For what it’s worth, a CASA GPL only exists to assist GFA members > wanting to have their Australian qualifications recognised overseas. > It will not allow a person to fly gliders in Australia outside the umbrella > of the GFA. > > Regards > > <image001.png>Christopher Thorpe > Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN > 82 433 > 264 489) > M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.g > lidingaustralia.org > > au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ > > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ > mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron > Sanders > Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:59 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no > clothes > > Thank you. > In the references listed I can not find the privileges and > responsibilities of the CASA GPL?? > ron > > On 24 August 2014 18:51, Christopher Thorpe <ctho...@bigpond.com> wrote: > Ron > > The GFA GPC is compliant in that it meets the standards specified in > Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. The > regulatory authority is in Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, > subparagraphs 61.1540 (2)(a),(b),& (c). > > CASA has produced a guidance booklet at: > http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/part61booklet.pdf > > For further guidance, go to: > http://www.casa.gov.au/licensingregs > > CASA has informed me that an applicant for a GPL will need to present > their GPC and identification documents, and then meet the following > requirements: > • CASA Medical > • FROL; > • Security Check; and > • English Language Proficiency Assessment; > > Glider pilots already holding a CASA Licence will generally only need > to evidence holding a GPC and a current CASA medical. > > Regards > > <image001.png>Christopher Thorpe > Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN > 82 433 > 264 489) > M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.g > lidingaustralia.org > > au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ > > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ > mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron > Sanders > Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:00 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no > clothes > > Dear Chris, > > Could you please explain the legislative background which makes the > GPC right now as is, ICAO compliant? > > However, on September 2, I wish to convert my GPC into a CASA Glider > Pilot License, can you please tell me how to do this? > > Ron Sanders > > On 24 August 2014 17:21, Christopher Thorpe <ctho...@bigpond.com> wrote: > To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC: > > > 1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant. > > 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent > Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). > > 3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO > compliant licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site for details). > > 4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian > pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this > was not necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA > regulatory environment. > > 5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, Australian > pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a CASA > Glider Pilot Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas recognition. > > Regards > > <image001.png>Christopher Thorpe > Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN > 82 433 > 264 489) > M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.g > lidingaustralia.org > > au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ > mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ulrich > Stauss > Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM > To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no > clothes > > Picking up from Michael Scutter: > > Will overseas pilots holding an ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license > and an FAI Sporting license still require a GPC to fly in Australian > competitions? > Perhaps more importantly, do the insurances recognise both the FAI > Sporting license and the GPC for their purposes? > > Or are there provisions in place to recognise the FAI Sporting license > as equivalent/superior? > If so does this also apply to an Australian pilot holding an FAI > Sporting license but not a GPC? (What if this pilot also holds an > overseas ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license?) > > Will the points of a competitor in an Australian National Championship > who only holds a GPC but no FAI Sporting license be recognised for the > FAI/IGC Pilot Rankings? > > To my knowledge the GPC is not ICAO compliant nor recognised anywhere > overseas. I guess that will have to wait until the CASA GPL finally > gets off the ground. The way I read the MOSP, the GPC in practice > merely means that the holder has a C certificate and may have been > trained according to the ‘new’ rearranged syllabus and to Level 1 > independent operator standard (but does not necessarily hold the L1 IO > rating!). > > In the meantime our pilots who want to compete overseas are still on > their own in the battle with foreign bureaucracies to obtain an ICAO > compliant license from wherever this is easier or quicker in their > circumstances (UK, US, Czech Republic…) on the basis of the C > certificate – googood luck to anyone attempting that based on a GPC. > > Wasn’t that the primary issue that the GPC was supposed to fix? > > The emperor has no clothes! > > Ulrich > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ > mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of pam > Sent: Friday, 22 August 2014 10:35 > To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses > > Records: > You must have an FAI Sporting Licence before you make a record > attempt. One pilot this year had a record claim rejected because he > had no Sporting Licence. You pay $10 and renew every 2 years. > A pilot can only hold one Sporting Licence, so for example if you > already hold one issued by Australia, you fly records and > International Competitions as a representative of Australia. You > can’t compete in the French Team, if you hold an FAI Sporting > Licence issued by Australia. In other words, the FAI Sporting Licence is > dependent on your Nationality or Residence. > Competitions: > The use of the word ‘competition licence’ is confusing, when it > refers to the FAI Sporting Licence. It was a requirement of the > insurance company providing liability insurance to competition > organisers, as evidence of pilots’ competence, and perhaps in > everyday speech it sounds simpler to say ‘competition licence’. It > appears now that the insurer is happy to accept a GPC for competitions in > Australia. > Pam > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [ > mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter > Champness > Sent: Thursday, 21 August 2014 7:33 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses > > I agree with the OPs Panel. The International Competition Licence was > never necessary and should not have been adopted for domestic > competition. The Glider Pilot Certificate has some merit and I > personally am very happy to adopt that for our competitions. It is a > lot more comprehensive than the old Silver badge. > > What happens if you fly a potential record flight and you don't have an > International Competition Licence. Can you apply for it retrospectively? > > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Adam Woolley <go_soar...@hotmail.com > > > wrote: > A timely question Don, > > I think the comp license has now been replaced by a GPC. > > > Cheers, > WPP > > >> On 21 Aug 2014, at 18:28, Don Woodward <donwo...@bigpond.net.au > wrote: >> >> >> G'day all, Jen and I have just spent the last hour searching the web >> for the address to send your competition license to to get it renewed >> but we've failed. Can someone please assist and remind me of the postal >> address? >> >> Regards >> Don Woodward >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
