I don't dislike the K21, I just don't see the point to it in the 21st century as it is a low performance glider by modern standards and I don't believe primary flight training should be done in gliders nowadays for reasons I've mentioned before. BTW wasn't it you who was telling me in a phone conversation not long ago that Vorgelat T35 was still a pretty good option for the finish?
Mike > On 23 Dec 2014, at 6:04 am, Bernhard <ec...@internode.on.net> wrote: > > Good morning Mike > > Please allow me to point out that the last ASK 21 with Vorgelat left the > factory about 20 years ago and > the same applies to other gliders and other manufacturers. > Sine we have taken over the agency almost 30 ASK 21 were sold to Australian > customers alone and > all but one (1) customer opted for a PU finish. Even after 10 years the > paintwork on some of the PU > gliders looks almost as good as new. Their is no suggestion that they ever > required a refinish within > their 18000 hours of certified service life. > > Your dislike of the ASK 21 is well known amongst the subscribers of this > newsgroup. Of course, you > are entitled to an opinion but fortunately your opinion is shared by many > others and in particular not > by people who operate and maintain ASK 21s. To date fife (5) Australian clubs > purchased their > second ASK 21 only a few years after getting their first one. Perhaps you > would also like to know > that the factory is getting close to dispatching their 1000th ASK 21. This > would most certainly not be > the case if the ASK 21 wasn’t exceeding our customer’s expectations. > > I’m looking forward to your reply but I would very much appreciate if you > could refrain from the usual > personal attacks! > > Many thanks in advance! > > Kind regards and a Merry Christmas to Carol and yourself!!! > > Bernard > > > >> On 22 Dec 2014, at 11:32 pm, Mike Borgelt <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> >> wrote: >> >> Ask the guys who've had to strip and refinish a Vorgelat K21. >> >> If you think the Blanik was horrible to fly you must have flown a badly >> rigged example ( possible, given some of the rocket scientists maintaining >> gliders in Australia) or your perception of flying qualities is somewhat >> off. OK the comfort of the front seat is nothing to write home about ( my >> theory is that the seat tester later got a job at GMH, walks in a crouch, >> has long arms and shaggy hair all over). >> >> Mike >> >> >> >>> On 22 Dec 2014, at 8:02 pm, Derek Ruddock <drudd...@iinet.net.au> wrote: >>> >>> Our IS 28’s were a nightmare to maintain and regularly went out of service >>> for maintenance or due to unavailability of spare parts. >>> The K21’s by contrast are a delight: the only downtime has been for regular >>> and brief servicing. >>> One thing the IS28’s were good at is for the teaching of spins. >>> Derek >>> 205 flights and 86 hours in K21’s >>> 666 flights and 300 hours in IS 28’s >>> 1 flight and 0.7 hours in a Blanik: I reckon that was about 0.7 hours too >>> long J >>> >>> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >>> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Leigh >>> Bunting >>> Sent: Monday, 22 December 2014 9:59 PM >>> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day: >>> >>> Gee Mike, >>> >>> I can see that you have never had to work on these "eastern-bloc" metal >>> gliders. I consider that they were a Communist plot to send western glider >>> pilots mad. >>> >>> I spent 30 years working on Blaniks and they were a nightmare to keep >>> tight. Forever replacing control circuit bearings for one thing. I >>> understand that IS28's are similar. I have many, many more hours tearings >>> Blaniks apart and putting them back together than sitting in the cockpit, >>> even though a Blanik is quite nice to fly. The only thing in a Blanik I >>> never took apart was the oleo strut. >>> >>> Back in the days Mike Burns was CTO, I said to him that I could ground >>> every Blanik in Australia because one AD required measuring spar pin holes >>> to 3-decimal places with tolerances to 4 IIRC. I had access to metrology >>> equipment that could measure those numbers. Our Blaniks were out of spec >>> then and I imagine no used Blanik then or now would comply - if that joke >>> of an AD is still applicable. >>> >>> After we sold our last Blanik, I followed the new owner down to the >>> airfield gate and locked it behind him so he couldn't get back in if he >>> changed his mind. Then I went to the RTO/A and had all my metal ratings >>> removed, so now I cannot even DI a tin can. >>> >>> These things were never meant to last as long as we have had them. >>> Especially in our dusty climate. In the Communist countries, I'm led to >>> believe that they replaced them regularly. I'm sure they never slaved over >>> them like we have. There are even odd individuals who LIKE working on the >>> things. These people are very 'special' to be politically correct. >>> >>> Having flown an IS28 once, I find your comparison to an ASK21 puzzling. >>> Maybe on paper, but certainly not in practice. I found that you could >>> thermal the thing with negative flap and it didn't appear to make any >>> difference to positive flap. It's front pole was even longer than a >>> Blanik's. I seem to remember feeling like having to look around my hand to >>> see ahead. Anyway, the IS28 is nowhere near as pleasant as an ASK21. At >>> least in a Blanik, I could thermal with full flap, elevator and trim >>> against the back stops and 25kts or less on the dial. >>> >>> Let us know how many hours you have flying a Blanik, IS28 and ASK21 and >>> I'll dig out mine so we can compare experience. >>> >>> Cheers and happy xmas, >>> Leigh Bunting >>> >>> On 22/12/14 15:08, Mike Borgelt wrote: >>> Shameful is what it is. It is well known that metal aircraft have two >>> problems when they age: >>> Fatigue and corrosion, both of which can be inspected for and rectified if >>> required. >>> Now it may not be economical to do the rectification but that can depend on >>> the particular circumstances of the owner. >>> Nothing to do with calendar life at all and an IS28 is hardly obsolete for >>> the purposes for which it is flown. As I have noted before, an ASK21 is >>> essentially a fibreglass IS 28. Look them up in Martin Simon's book on >>> sailplanes 1965 to 2000. >>> What a pity we don't have in this country an organisation dedicated to >>> promoting the interests of glider pilots and glider owners. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
