Al, thanks so much for that information -- although I wish it gave me a little more hope. I had been hoping that the RC records would be more detailed than the civil ones are. I'll start my search with St. Joseph's -- but will pray it was actually at a different church with a more detail-oriented pastor, lol... Thanks again.
David da Silva Cornell Miami, FL Researching the following surnames: Faial - Terra (unknown freguesia(s)) Flores - Freitas, Lourenço, Coelho (unknown freguesia(s)) Pico - Silveira Cardoso, Macedo, Machado, Pereira Madruga, Ferreira, Cardoso, Cardoso Machado, Vieira, Bettencourt, Dutra, Castanho, Homem, Goulart, Quaresma, Moniz, Barreto, Silveira, Mancebo, Pereira, Álvares (all Lajes do Pico) S. Jorge - Silva, Botelho, Azevedo, Cardoso (Urzelina); Silva, Azevedo, Cardoso (Santo António in Norte Grande) On Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:40:50 PM UTC-4, alro...@aol.com wrote: > > David, > I ran into a similar problem tracing marriage records for that time > period in Providence. Let me tell you what I found. > The only RC church in the Portuguese community area of India/Fox point > was an Irish church ... St Joseph's at 90 Hope St, Providence. > I wish you luck ... the Irish did not record anything but witnesses. I > actually learned more from the civil record because at least that gave the > anglicized names of their parents. Hope you make out with better luck. > > In my case it was my great grandmother who came to Providence from Flores > and married my great grandfather at St Joseph's in 1876. He was from Sao > Jorge. > > Interestingly, none of their children were baptized at St Joseph's ... > most likely they were done by a visiting priest from Fall River. They were > tasked to meet the needs of the Portuguese community in Providence for > decades. Until 1895 when Holy Rosary church opened (actually a bit earlier > because the parish was temporarily established in a civilian meeting hall > for some number of years while Holy Rosary was built). > > I'd love to one day locate the files of those baptisms in Fall River. > > FYI ... here is a link to info on my great grandmother: Anna Emelia > Silveira (who I thought was maiden name SILVA because that is what every US > record gave as her maiden name. I only discovered it was SILVEIRA with the > help of DNA. > > http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=butchrose&id=I335 > > Al Rose > > > In a message dated 4/21/2013 12:12:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > dsdsc...@gmail.com <javascript:> writes: > > Thanks much, Eric. I know the 1870 federal census lists my > g'g'grandmother as 18, and her Providence marriage record, but the family > bible kept by her daughter, my g'grandmother, lists the 1854 date I have > been searching, and has so far been accurate as to all other dates. > Moreover, her death certificate in Jan. 1905 lists an age of 50, which > would be consistent with a birth year of 1854 (as in the family bible), > while other censuses and records suggest still other years: the 1880 > federal census, about 1853, and the 1900 federal census, about 1855. Our > family assumed she upped her given age from 16 to 18 at the time of her > marriage, and then later in life started subtracting years, but that the > family bible and death certificate were the most accurate sources. > > However, as I just noted in a separate reply to Cheri Mello, I downloaded > the Casais das Flores book and have gone through it and -- while you're > right that there appears to be no marriage record for Bernardo Jozé Louren > ço -- I found three children of his and Anna Emilia's getting married in > the parish of Fajãs. Unfortunately for me, one of these marriages, of an > Ana Bernarda, appears to be of the same person whose baptismal record I was > deciphering, so presumably that Anna is indeed not my Anna after all. > > In order to make the leap back to the CCA records and the Casais book, it > looks like I'm going to have to pursue next something I've tried to obtain > but not had luck with so far -- Anna's Roman Catholic marriage record, as > opposed to her Providence marriage record, which of course doesn't give a > freguesia, and only gives her parents' anglicized first names and no > surnames. The Providence marriage record doesn't list the church where > Anna married Antonio/Antone/Antoine/Anthony Hurd/Hard/Heard (all of these > variants of his anglicized name appear in various records), but does list > the priest who married them: William Halligan. I've tried to locate via > Google the parish he was serving in at the time of the marriage in 1870, > but have only found parishes where he served in later years. (Apparently, > Halligan helped start or grow a number of RI parishes.) > > Unfortunately, the marriage occurred in an odd period for the records of > RI RC churches, right before the Diocese of Hartford (which was based not > in Hartford but in Providence) in 1872 spun off the Diocese of Providence > (moving the see city of the Hartford diocese -- later raised to become an > archdiocese -- back to Hartford). It's not clear to me whether church > archives covering RI churches before the 1872 diocesan separation (a) > stayed in Providence and were inherited by the new Diocese of Providence, > (b) got moved to Hartford and remained in the possession of what is now the > Archdiocese of Hartford, (c) got moved somewhere else entirely, or (d) fell > through the cracks and have disappeared. Calls to the Hartford > archdiocesan and Providence diocesan archives have not been returned, so > I'm at a bit of a dead-end in trying to figure out what church Fr. Halligan > was serving in 1870. > > The work-around I came up with is to reach out separately to each RC > parish within the city limits of Providence (since the marriage was > recorded in Providence's city records) and ask whether Fr. Halligan served > there in 1870. (And I'm hoping he didn't perform the wedding at a church > other than where he was assigned.) It's also possible he was serving a > church that has since been closed, so I'd also need to find out where such > churches' records have been transferred (and hopefully not to the > unresponsive diocesan archives). However, rather than just contacting > every RC church in Providence, it would be ideal to know which churches > were open there in 1870. If anyone has any sources that could help > determine that, it would be greatly appreciated. > > Failing that, I'll just have to go through all of the CCA's baptismal > records for all Flores parishes for all the possible birth years other than > 1854... Ugh. But thank you for searching your Flores databases for Anna. > > Regarding my Terra line from Faial, through Anna's husband Antonio Hurd / > António > da Terra: The obit you found is indeed that of my great-great-uncle, > Antonio/Anthony Hurd Jr., and I'm glad to learn that his father's name was > not just António da Terra (as all family sources indicated) but more > specifically António Inácio da Terra. (Oddly, the obit also says that > his mother -- Anna -- was from Faial, but the family oral history is > emphatic that she came from Flores, and while I don't have it handy right > I'm pretty sure her death certificate says so too, if I'm recalling > correctly...) > > However, I'm sure my António Inácio da Terra is different from the one > born in Pedro Miguel in 1800, because all other records indicate an 1844 or > 1845 birth date for him. Also not sure what to make of the António Furtado > da Terra; no family record or civil record that I have seen mentions > Furtado. > > Thanks again, > > David da Silva Cornell > * > > * > On Friday, April 19, 2013 2:12:33 PM UTC-4, luiznoia wrote: >> >> Flores marriage book doesn't show anything record for Bernardo Joze >> Lourenco. >> >> The 1870 census shows Anna is eighteen, as does her marriage record of >> the same year. That puts her birth at 1851-1852. >> >> Obit for their son from Diario de Noticias attached . >> >> I've searched my Flores databases for Anna with out success. I have many >> Coelho, Lourenco and Freitas families related to mine. >> >> I think this is the origin of your Terra family in Faial : >> >> *António Inácio da Terra* >> * >> * >> ** >> *Nascido a 25 de Abril de 1800 - Pedro Miguel* >> * >> * >> *Casado a 29 de Maio de 1841 com Rosa Perpétua de Jesus 1808 >> * >> * >> * >> *Pais* >> * >> * >> *Manuel Inácio Furtado da Terra 1773-1848 >> * >> *Eugénia Rosa de Jesus 1771-1834* >> >> >> >> >> The obit shows that Antonio Inacio da Terra was known as Antonio Pequeno >> >> This article shows that Antonio Furtado is known as Antonio Pequeno. >> >> >> Eric Edgar >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:38 PM, David da Silva Cornell < >> dsdsc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> It has been several years since I last posted here, but I'm still >>> quite grateful for the help I received here. After a hiatus in my >>> research, I have been getting back into the swing of things and could >>> really use a helping hand -- or, actually, helping eyes -- again. >>> >>> I have located what I believe is the baptismal record of my >>> great-great-grandmother, who emigrated to Providence at age 9, and prior to >>> her marriage to my great-great-grandfather Antone/Antonio Hurd (born >>> Antonio da Terra on Faial, son of Manuel and Roza) was known in the US >>> records as Anna Freitas/Frates/Fratis. >>> >>> Previously, I only knew that she was from Flores; that her parents were >>> José and Anna; that she had Lourenço and Coelho relatives; and that the >>> family Bible gave her birthdate as March 30, 1854. I had no freguesia for >>> her, though. >>> >>> Having now gone through all of the Flores parishes on the CCA site, I >>> have located an Anna who appears to be the only Anna born on Flores on >>> March 30, 1854, to a José and Anna, with Freitas and Lourenço both >>> among the surnames mentioned. (I don't see Coelho, but it might be one of >>> the words I can't make out.) >>> >>> The record in question is in the records for what used to be known as >>> the parish of the Fajãs but apparently now (after Fajã Grande, where this >>> family lived, and other nearby places spun off to become their own >>> parishes) is known just as Fajãzinha (retaining what had once been the >>> church for the entire former parish of the Fajãs). The record can be >>> found here: >>> http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FLR-LF-FAJAZINHA-B-1850-1860/FLR-LF-FAJAZINHA-B-1850-1860_item1/P52.html >>> >>> My own painful deciphering of the handwriting -- which was very >>> helpfully aided by using as a template an 1854 baptismal record from the >>> same parish already deciphered here a year ago for Katharine Baker, which >>> appears in the same book and was apparently written by the same priest >>> (Katharine, if you read this, your ancestor is No. 18 of 1854 and mine is >>> no. 25 of that year, and both records include folks named Freitas, so I'd >>> wager we connect somewhere there) -- has resulted in what I think is an >>> almost complete transcription of Anna's baptismal record, but there are >>> still some words and/or abbreviations I just can't make out no matter how >>> long I stare at them (and of course I may also have made mistakes that I'm >>> not aware of). >>> >>> This is what I get, following the same line breaks as in the original, >>> with underlined spaces where I can't make out the words and brackets for >>> miscellaneous comments: >>> >>> Anna >>> >>> [No.] 25 >>> >>> filha de Bernardo Jozé Lourenço _____ e de Sua m.er [mulher] Anna Emi- >>> >>> lia moradores na Fajangrande neta pela parte paterna de M.el [Manoel] >>> >>> Lourenço _____ e de Sua m.er [mulher] Catherina de Freitaz e pela ma- >>> >>> terna de Antonio Rodriguez de Freitaz e de Sua mulher Marianna >>> >>> de ________ o avo paterno natural da Ilha do Corvo ________ >>> >>> naturaiz e freguesoz da Par.al [Parochial, i.e. modern "Paroquial"] >>> Igreja de N. [Nossa] Snr.a [Senhora] dos Remedioz >>> >>> da freguesia das Fajans da Ilha das Florez nascio [i.e., modern >>> "nasceu"] aos trinta >>> >>> dias do mez de Março de mil oito centos cincoenta e quatro >>> >>> foi baptizada _________________ Par.al [Parochial] pelo ___ ____ >>> Antonio >>> >>> Jozé de Freitaz [e?] lhe pos os Santos Oleos aos dois dias do mez >>> >>> de Abril do dito anno foi padrinho o __ Vigário Diogo >>> >>> Antonio Jozé de Freitas _____________ Antonio [or Antonia?] P.el >>> [Pimentel?] e Jozé Jo- >>> >>> aquim. E para constar se fiz este termo que asignei era >>> >>> ut supra. >>> >>> De Antonio P.el [Pimentel?] >>> >>> De Jozé __ Joaq.m [Joaquim] >>> >>> O V.gro [Vigário] Diogo Antonio J. de Freitaz >>> >>> >>> Any deciphering of what the blanks say, and any correction of any >>> mistakes I have made, would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Also, this record has led to the following questions for me: >>> >>> 1. I know that this group periodically discusses some materials that >>> one can use to help educate oneself to read the records' handwriting >>> better, but I can't seem to locate a reference to where those materials can >>> be found. Would someone please be kind enough to point me to them? I know >>> it's only going to get harder as I go further back in time! >>> >>> 2. I have noted here recurring references to a book of Flores and Corvo >>> marriages and to a book of Flores families... Where can one obtain copies >>> of these books, if that is even possible (or, if not possible, does the LDS >>> Family Center network have access to copies that one can borrow)? >>> >>> And a final, non-Flores/Corvo question, relating to Anna's faialense >>> husband and his parents: >>> >>> 3. I have not found my Terra ancestors in the UMinho records, nor have >>> I found them in the four Faial freguesias for which the CCA has records up >>> right now. Does anyone have any idea when the remaining freguesias from >>> Faial will be up on the CCA site? >>> >>> With many thanks for any answers or guidance on the above, >>> >>> David da Silva Cornell >>> Miami, FL >>> >>> Researching the following surnames: >>> >>> Corvo - Lourenço >>> >>> Faial - Terra (unknown freguesia(s)) >>> >>> Flores - Freitas, Lourenço, Coelho (Fajã Grande, formerly in the parish >>> of Fajãs) >>> >>> Pico - Silveira Cardoso, Macedo, Machado, Pereira Madruga, Ferreira, >>> Cardoso, Cardoso Machado, Vieira, Bettencourt, Dutra, Castanho, Homem, >>> Goulart, Quaresma, Moniz, Barreto, Silveira, Mancebo, Pereira, Álvares(all >>> Lajes do Pico) >>> >>> S. Jorge - Silva, Botelho, Azevedo, Cardoso (Urzelina); Silva, Azevedo, >>> Cardoso (Santo António in Norte Grande) >>> >>> -- >>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail >>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. 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