On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:55:12 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Gilberto, > As a former member of a protestant Christian church, The > Disciples of Christ, I found your comment a bit perplexing. > Like Patti, I've always felt appellation "disciple" referred > to anyone who believed in and followed the teachings of > Christ (in this instance).
Actually that is an interesting coincidence. I grew up in a Disciples of Christ Church too. I understand that this is how many Christians read the Bible, i.e. disciple = believer. And maybe I'm overstating this. But after gaining a certain amount of distance from Christianity I was just struck by the way in which Jesus' relation with his disciples was similar to a sufi shaykh's relationship with his disciples. And then when I would reread the Gospels certain passages would stand out as being consistent with this slightly different reading. For example, the way that Jesus and his disciples remained a seperate group from John the Baptist and his disciples. (Why didn't John just tell all his followers to become disciples of Jesus?) Or consider Matthew 13 [10] Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" [11] And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. So some parts of Jesus' message were for the crowds. But some were for the inner core of disciples. Or again Mathew 19, after mentioning his teaching on divorce: [10] The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry." [11] But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. [12] For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it." So again some of the things which Jesus taught aren't meant to be for everyone but just for "he who is able to receive this" "only those to whom it is given". Or again, even the fact that we talk about the 12 disciples, and later the 11, and then the 12 again, strongly suggests that a "disciple" isn't the same as the general believer since Jesus had more than 12 people who accepted his teachings and followed him, for example the famous women who were certainly believers but not disciples. > If it were intended that certain laws were only binding on the > original 12 disciples what would be the point of Christ's > teachings? I believe His admonitions were for all to follow > and spread those teachings by word and deed. Well here is another example which should be pretty clear. In Matthew 10 [5] These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, [6] but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. [7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' [8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay. [9] Take no gold, nor silver, nor copper in your belts, [10] no bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor a staff; for the laborer deserves his food. So the disciples here are basically taking a kind of vow to poverty, they made a special commitment to be wandering preaches without a fixed home. So would you agree that the disciples had extra instructions which weren't binding on everyone. Or are you saying that all Christians are supposed to make this kind of vow of poverty? Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
