Dear Khazeh: On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 15:40:51 -0000, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43297.html > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43305.html Gilberto: > One issue which should be raised however, is that the Torah was > a revelation > given to Moses. But if you actually study the history ofthe > text and modern Biblical scholarship, virtually no Biblicalscholar actually > believes that the current first five books of theBible (the Pentateuch) was > entirely written by Moses (as). The mostwidely accepted understanding is > > something called the documentaryhypothesis. Where scholars have traced > the > contributions of 4different authors and styles in the book. And there are > indicationsthat these 4 source materials weren't combined until several > centuriesafter Moses. So I'm sure that at least part of the original Torah > of Moses iscontained in the Pentateuch BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE PENTETEUCH > IS THE SAME AS THE TORAHâ.Gilberto Dear Khazeh, you are correct that those are the words I wrote. But you chose to put the last part in all capital letters (I didn't). And in the post you are quoting from I also said many positive things about the Torah and that there was much unappreciated wisdom in it, and that it is likely that in essential important ways the core teachings of the Torah (the original revelation given to Moses) can be found in the Penteteuch (the first five books of the Bible, which is often described as the Torah). You are obviously emphasizing a part of what I said in order to make a point, and that is ok. But I just wanted to make sure to say all the above so that my words aren't taken out of context or give the wrong impression of what I'm saying. There are at least 3 really simple examples of how one might want to make a distinction between the Torah and the Penteteuch. 1. It was my impression that Bahais (and typical Muslims) took the position that Ishmael was the son who was almost sacrificed by Abraham instead of Isaac (as the Bible) says. In Gleanings from the Writings of Bahâ'u'llâh, passage number 32, Bahâ'u'llâh mentions the sacrifice that Abraham must make to prove His faith. It states: "That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men." So since the Penteteuch clearly identifies the son as Isaac, then somehow there is a discrepancy here unless you want to say that the revelation of God given to Moses had a mistake in it. 2. There are the commandments to commit genocide which are found in the Penteteuch and which is hard to believe are inspired. 3. But then third third reason which more directly speaks to the point about Mosaic authorship is the fact that at the end of Deuteronomy, Moses' own death is described as if it had already happened along time ago. Deuteronomy 34 5] So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD, [6] and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-pe'or; but no man knows the place of his burial ***to this day*** [So when was this written?] [7] Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died; his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. [8] And the people of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days; then the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. [9] And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom, for Moses had laid his hands upon him; so the people of Israel obeyed him, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses. [10] And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, [This statement doesn't mean anything if it was written right after Moses passed away. It's like saying "George Bush is the best President of the United States since Bill Clinton".] So at the very least, this passage of Deuteronomy was written by someone long after Moses. But then scholars say that the writing style of this passage shows up in other parts of the Penteteuch. And there are many other indications that the Penteteuch had multiple authors and was put together centuries after Moses. Peace Gilberto __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
