Dear Gilberto,
No verse of the Qur'an says it, but a nine year old girl is an adult by the standards of the hadith, and much shariyah is hadith-based, hadith provides much of the precedent for Islamic jurisprudence.
In 1980 an Iranian court hung a seventeen year old girl, she was arrested when she was sixteen. Is that sufficiently old? Her crime was teaching the Baha`i faith to Baha`i children.
Regards,
Scott
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gilberto:
What verse of the Quran says to hang nine-year old girls? What could a
nine-year old girl do that would cause her to get hanged? Assuming
there even was such a case, what kind of caricature of Islamic law do
you believe in which would make you think that there are never
extenuating circumstances (that allow for clemency)?
> -----------------------------
> Gilberto:
> Thirdly, I don't think you individually are necessarily guilty of this
> but I think this attempt to equate the Biblical and Quranic rules of
> warfare strikes me as self serving.
>
> Bahais tend to say, for instance that Bahaullah abolished "holy war"
> but when I've pointed out that the Bahai texts which justify
> "righteous warfare" Bahais are eager to try to seperate the Bahai
> stance from the Muslim. (So! me seemed even offended at the comparison)
> Islam's rules about warfare are basically consistent with current
> notions of "just war". While if you just read the book of Joshua you
> would see how radically different the OT view was.
---------------
> Reply:
> Righteous warfare is different in definition by Baha`i standards than "Holy
> War".
Gilberto:
Ok, that's what you are claiming. I've given you specific reasons for
why Islamic warfare is very different from the warfare commanded in
the OT. What are the reasons that you believe Bahai "righteous
warfare" is different from the warfare fought under Muhammad (saaws)
or Ali or Hussein?
> ---------------------------------------------
> Do you believe it is valid to apply the Quranic rules on warfare today?
> -------------------------
> Reply:
> In a word, no.
> -------------------------------
Gilberto:
An! d that's how you are downgrading or deligitimizing the Quran.
In response to Scott saying he wants me to feel better about the OT
genocides (paraphrase)
> Gilberto
> If you want to do that, then you should explain how the genocides
> commanded in Deuteronomy and executed in Joshua (among other places)
> are consistent with basic rules about moral behavior.
> Reply:
> I do not know if Deuteronomical excesses were at the command of God or not.
Gilberto:
So it doesn't makes sense that you would be so eager to justify them.
Scott:
> > Though Baha'is have our own Book, we still interpret the
> > writings in all Holy Books in a positive light.
Gilberto:
> I just try to see all the books as they are. Positive and negative.
Scott:
> But you never change your point of view a whit.
Gilberto:
That's not true. I think I've learned more about Bahais through these
interactions. I'm not sure what you expect though.
Scott:
> > It is unfortunate that your brand of Islam
> > cannot do that, it seems like you are intimidated by the other
> > Holy Books.
Gilberto:
> Firstly I don't have a brand of Islam. Actually Islam has very little
> to do with this particular point. I was raised Christian and went to
> church and read the Bible. And even before being Muslim, this was one
> of the aspects of Biblical Christianity which clearly bothered me and
> made me not want to be a Christian.
> You are Sunnah rather than Shi'ih which is
> a "brand" to some extent.
Sunni, or Ahl al-Sunnah wal Jamaat. But the attitude you described
doesn't apply to me and it isn't specific to sunnis.
Scott:
> By
> modern standards there is a lot of shock in the Old Testament in particular.
> Modern standards will NEVER gain an unde! rstanding of the Old Testament, it
> is quite alien to the standards of today.
Again, it's not just a modern thing. I don't think you need to be
"modern" to say that killing large numbers of people who are not doing
anything to you is wrong.
-G
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