Dear Gilberto, I have numbered some of your statements. My answer to each follows each.
1.The impression I have is that Bahais are saying that slavery was pretty much ok before Bahaullah banned it, and became wrong after he banned it. If God, through one of His Manifestations, specifically allows that an act is not forebidden, then it is permitted (Dispensation of Muhamad). If He prohibits an act, then it is prohibited( Dispensaton of Baha'u'llah). Men tend to invent issues where none exist. Has it not been said that knowledge is one point but the ignorant multiply it? Men are arbitrary and impatient. . 2. I don't think the morality of an act is merely dependent on Bahaullah's statement. "All good is from God". Can anything be independent of God? Even before Bahaullah's statement, independently of any particular prophetic declaration, morally sensitive people in the West were seeing on their own that slavery was problematic. This Revelation of God is so powerful (a weak word which cannot begin to describe Its all-pervasive quality) that it affected men before they were aware. As a matter of fact the same is true of all of God's Revelations. The same is true with your statment #4. 4. The same could be said of many other moral positions. That's why even people of different religions and atheists can still come to some broad agreement on many ethical principles. The acts themselves are moral or immoral Gilberto: > In Greek philosophy there is the famous question, "Do the gods order > men to do "the good" because it's good? Or is the good good, because > the gods order it?" Personally I would lean towards the first, while > Bahais seem to lean towards the second. Richard: > What is the worth of the sayings of men before the Word of God? Would I > rather find my way in the dark with a flickering candle or have the dark > dispersed by the light of the sun? Gilberto: Even if the Bahai writings are the Word of God, there is also the question of whether you as an individual are interpreting it correctly. Richard That is between me and God. You as well must answer to God for your understanding of the Qur'an. No one else can answer for you' or for me without the permission of God. gilberto Even if the source is perfect, the transmission may not be. Richard Moreso with the Qur'an, as Muhammad Himself could neither read nor write and so could not correct possible errors in transmission. Yet to a Baha'i it is fully authentic and is to be accepted as such and studied reverently as the Word of God. On the other hand the Bab and Baha'u'llah could read and write. Gilberto No matter what, you can't get too cocky and think you have all the answers and that other people are just in the dark. We are all imperfect human beings with pieces of the truth. Richard. Yes Gilberto, I agree. That is exactly why we must be grateful to God because He has sent all mankind His Guidance written in perpicuous language on tablets of pure chyrsolite. Gilberto: > I think I would also distinguish between rituals changing and certain > ethical principles. So for instance, I think the qiblah change is more > a matter of obedience, but something like the abolition of slavery is > more related to moral reasoning. Richard: > Could we depend upon "moral reasoning" rather than the Revelation of God; > most certainly He would have revealed it and given us guidance upon the > identification and application thereof. Gilberto: Over and over again the Quran asks the reader to look at the world, to use his or her reason and sense. Richard I don't find that to be true at all Gilberto. What stuck in my mind when the only Book after the Bible, was, as far as I knew, the Qur'an, I heard, over and over again "It is for those who keep up prayer, pay the poor-rate and believe in the prophets and in the Last Day". Richard In the Bahai faith, what good is independent investigation of the truth if you didn't have the ability to distinguish truth from falsehood somehow. Richard. Is not the Book itself a sufficient distinguisher between the two? Would you trade the error of your own reasoning for the Sure Guidance of the Book? Gilberto And in any case, the issue of slavery is a really good example of how human moral reasoning actually did anticipate Bahaullah's banning of the institution. It's not perfect, but it has some value. Richard Did idolaters outside of Mecca,who did not bury their female children in the sand, anticipate the revelation of Muhammad? As one sees the sky lighting before the dawn, if one is awake and in prayer, one will also be aware of the coming of the Dawn of a new Revelation. Did not John warn the people of the coming of Jesus and did not Salman warn the people of the imminent Advent of Muhammad? Yes, sensitive souls will respond to the sun ere it ascends above the horizon. On the other hand, some sleep during the day and awaken only in the nightseason. Ricahrd. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. 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