Dear Gilberto, I have numbered some of your statements. My answer to each
follows each.
1.The impression I have is that Bahais are saying that slavery was
pretty much ok before Bahaullah banned it, and became wrong after he
banned it.
If God, through one of His Manifestations, specifically allows that an act
is not forebidden, then it is permitted (Dispensation of Muhamad). If He
prohibits an act, then it is prohibited( Dispensaton of Baha'u'llah). Men
tend to invent issues where none exist. Has it not been said that knowledge
is one point but the ignorant multiply it? Men are arbitrary and impatient.
. 2. I don't think the
morality of an act is merely dependent on Bahaullah's statement.
"All good is from God". Can anything be independent of God? Even
before Bahaullah's statement, independently of any particular
prophetic declaration, morally sensitive people in the West were
seeing on their own that slavery was problematic.
This Revelation of God is so powerful (a weak word which cannot begin to
describe Its all-pervasive quality) that it affected men before they were
aware. As a matter of fact the same is true of all of God's Revelations.
The same is true with your statment #4.
4. The same could be said of many other moral positions. That's why even
people of different religions and atheists can still come to some
broad agreement on many ethical principles. The acts themselves are
moral or immoral
Gilberto:
> In Greek philosophy there is the famous question, "Do the gods order
> men to do "the good" because it's good? Or is the good good, because
> the gods order it?" Personally I would lean towards the first, while
> Bahais seem to lean towards the second.
Richard:
> What is the worth of the sayings of men before the Word of God? Would I
> rather find my way in the dark with a flickering candle or have the dark
> dispersed by the light of the sun?
Gilberto:
Even if the Bahai writings are the Word of God, there is also the
question of whether you as an individual are interpreting it
correctly.
Richard
That is between me and God. You as well must answer to God for your
understanding of the Qur'an. No one else can answer for you' or for me
without the permission of God.
gilberto
Even if the source is perfect, the transmission may not be.
Richard
Moreso with the Qur'an, as Muhammad Himself could neither read nor write and
so could not correct possible errors in transmission. Yet to a Baha'i it is
fully authentic and is to be accepted as such and studied reverently as the
Word of God. On the other hand the Bab and Baha'u'llah could read and
write.
Gilberto
No matter what, you can't get too cocky and think you have all the
answers and that other people are just in the dark. We are all
imperfect human beings with pieces of the truth.
Richard.
Yes Gilberto, I agree. That is exactly why we must be grateful to God
because He has sent all mankind His Guidance written in perpicuous language
on tablets of pure chyrsolite.
Gilberto:
> I think I would also distinguish between rituals changing and certain
> ethical principles. So for instance, I think the qiblah change is more
> a matter of obedience, but something like the abolition of slavery is
> more related to moral reasoning.
Richard:
> Could we depend upon "moral reasoning" rather than the Revelation of God;
> most certainly He would have revealed it and given us guidance upon the
> identification and application thereof.
Gilberto:
Over and over again the Quran asks the reader to look at the world, to
use his or her reason and sense.
Richard
I don't find that to be true at all Gilberto. What stuck in my mind when
the only Book after the Bible, was, as far as I knew, the Qur'an, I heard,
over and over again "It is for those who keep up prayer, pay the poor-rate
and believe in the prophets and in the Last Day".
Richard
In the Bahai faith, what good is
independent investigation of the truth if you didn't have the ability
to distinguish truth from falsehood somehow.
Richard.
Is not the Book itself a sufficient distinguisher between the two? Would
you trade the error of your own reasoning for the Sure Guidance of the Book?
Gilberto
And in any case, the issue of slavery is a really good example of how
human moral reasoning actually did anticipate Bahaullah's banning of
the institution. It's not perfect, but it has some value.
Richard
Did idolaters outside of Mecca,who did not bury their female children in
the sand, anticipate the revelation of Muhammad?
As one sees the sky lighting before the dawn, if one is awake and in prayer,
one will also be aware of the coming of the Dawn of a new Revelation. Did
not John warn the people of the coming of Jesus and did not Salman warn the
people of the imminent Advent of Muhammad? Yes, sensitive souls will
respond to the sun ere it ascends above the horizon. On the other hand,
some sleep during the day and awaken only in the nightseason.
Ricahrd.
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