The Baha'i Studies Listserv I think you make a valid point, Gilberto. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Gilberto Simpson <gilberto.simp...@gmail.com> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I guess what I would suggest is that if the reality underneath the > names is really the same, then the names don't matter at all. > (including the name Bahaullah). The only thing that matters is getting > access to that reality. And so if we are really talking about the > unchanging Faith of God as being the important thing, then that should > be accessible from the best parts of the Jewish tradition, or the best > parts of the Christian tradition, or the best parts of Islamic > tradition etc. And that if you "cling" to Bahaullah its possible to > not see the truths which non-Bahais may already have. > > On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Naison Jones <naistrada...@gmail.com> wrote: >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> >> A seeker must put aside all love and hate. Love because what he loves can >> blind him to finding the beloved in another form because he is too attached >> to the old form. >> if I love the symbol of the cross and am so in love with Jesus dying on the >> cross and his self-less sacrifice I will not as easily be able to recognise >> Baha'u'llah he did not die on the cross. >> If similarly I am in love with Muhammad in love with the idea of this desert >> nomab guiding people and declaring holy war and winning these battles or >> whatever else pertains to this revelation how can I recognise one who says >> "Holy war is abolished"? >> Love can be a veil as much as hate. >> A true seeker puts aside his love and hate and seeks only for the reality in >> all things. >> And since the reality of the prophets is the same, one who is detached from >> all else save him should be able to come upon the revelation "Swift as a >> twinkling of the eye" (that is from ruhi book 2 I think). >> Good luck. >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Gilberto Simpson >> <gilberto.simp...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 3:31 AM, Khazeh <aqu...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote: >>> > The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>> >>> > Again Firouz said >>> >> And we don't think non-Baha'is go to hell >>> >>> > Whereupon Gilberto replied: >>> >>> > That's not exactly true. Isn't recognizing the Manifestation for the >>> > current >>> > age seen as a major obligation according to the Bahá’ís? >>> >>> > From The summons of the Lord of Hosts >>> > >>> > Suriy-i-Haykal >>> > ***It is even as ye witness in the present day: those who have >>> > disbelieved >>> > in God and joined partners with Him cling to a single one of Our Names, >>> > and >>> > are debarred from recognizing Him Who is the Creator of all Names. We >>> > testify that such men are of a truth amongst the people of the Fire.** >>> > >>> > Firouz can reply for himself of course and others so much better >>> > equipped >>> > than this lowly one can engage in deep and spiritual conversation but I >>> > wish >>> > to make two points as I always admire Gilberto’s mind and logic. >>> > >>> > Firstly I will mention the second point above re the quote from the >>> > Tablet >>> > revealed by Baha’u’llah in the Haykal. >>> > >>> > Please Gilberto. >>> > >>> > It can be read differently. >>> > >>> > Baha’u’llah is here emphasizing the truth that “clinging to one name” >>> > being >>> > attached to one name” “idolizing one name” to the detriment of realizing >>> > that He Possesses ALL Names (= > All Revelations the One Common >>> > revelation), >>> > THAT is the start of going away from the truth, becoming negative, >>> > turning >>> > away from the entirety and wholeness of Divine Revelations and becoming >>> > engrossed and entrapped by shirk which is hell itself. >>> > >>> >>> If I'm understanding you properly, I think that's a beautiful way to >>> think of things. But would you be willing to say that people in the >>> present day can "cling" to Bahaullah in a negative sense in the >>> present day ? Can someone be a member of a particular faith without >>> believing in Bahaullah without being guilty of "clinging" to their old >>> faith? >>> >>> Or to explain with an example on the other side.. there is a blog >>> which I like reading from time to time called Inspirations and >>> Creative Thoughts. >>> http://www.mysticsaint.info/ >>> >>> From what I can tell, the author is basically Muslim, from a Muslim >>> family, who follows the Shadhili tariqat and believes that Muhammad is >>> the last prophet. But he follows Islam in a really open-hearted way >>> and values the truth wherever it appears (including the Bahai >>> writings). As far as I can tell, he doesn't consider the Bab or >>> Bahaullah as Manifestations or prophets, but he has an appreication of >>> works like the Seven Valleys. Would you consider such a person to be >>> "clinging"? >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:naistrada...@gmail.com >>> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >>> mailto:leave-547821-2222932.41cdf54d4f0ecb51bfad2c42bd979...@list.jccc.edu >>> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >>> ly...@list.jccc.edu >>> Or subscribe: >>> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >>> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >>> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >>> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >>> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >>> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net >>> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >>> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:gilberto.simp...@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> mailto:leave-547839-68452.e157d5dc5efabb63696f251595c88...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> ly...@list.jccc.edu >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net >> New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __________________________________________________ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-547952-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > >
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