I think it depends on what your'e used to. My first 13 course had 157mm and that is what I learned on, and I try to only play lutes with that spacing. Once I had a lute for 6 months that was much smaller (say around 145 cm) and I couldn't stand it. I could never hit the correct bass notes. I know Barto uses 155cm. I tend to favor lutes of the Edlinger school which tend to be bigger I think than Hoffman and Schelle lutes. I also prefer lutes with a longer string length like over 76 cm. I would love to try one of the 80cm 13 course lutes. Sterling On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:53 PM, Anton Birula <image...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: I am really surprised.... Having played londer than 23 years, I never had an instrument wider than 147 which I play. Everyone who played my lutes would say that it is a bit widish.... Also as far as I know, Hoppy Smith, Nigel North, Konrad Junghanel, Toyohiko Satoh, Jacob Lindberg and many others have lutes narrower than 147. It is really remarkable to hear that people have such wide spacing around. What about late Weiss Suites from Dresden manuscript Nr 23,24, 25, 30? How do these work on that spacings? Best wishes, AB -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 6/24/14, Matthew Daillie <[1]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote: Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Swan Neck Baroque Lute for sale To: "Christopher Wilke" <[2]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Cc: "John Lenti" <[3]johnle...@hotmail.com>, "[4]r.turov...@gmail.com" <[5]r.turov...@gmail.com>, "sterling price" <[6]spiffys84...@yahoo.com>, "[7]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[8]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 9:07 PM The difficulty comes from having to drill a new hole very close to an old one. Even if the latter is well plugged, the drill bit often finds its way back into the original hole. It is also tricky to make sure the bit comes out the other side exactly where you want it to (after all, we are talking about fractions of millimetres). Anyway, ask any reputable maker, it's not a job they enjoy doing (and I have had it done on a couple of my lutes). Some makers prefer to make a new bridge which can be glued on to the soundboard without it being removed, but others would only consider fitting a new bridge with the top off. best Matthew On 24 juin 2014, at 18:26, Christopher Wilke <[9]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: > Nothing difficult about it at all. I've drilled a few holes myself on lutes and a baroque guitar and I have zero wood working skills. I used a little tiny hobby drill that I bought from Michael's hobby supply. It's basically just a short aluminum handle like an Exacto knife with a little drill bit set into it. You just physically rotate it back and forth by hand. It's so small, you can get it close and parallel with the soundboard. If you're not an experienced bridge-hole-driller, the real advantage is that you have plenty of time to recognize and correct your aim as you go. > > Chris > > Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. > Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer > www.christopherwilke.com > > -------------------------------------------- > On Tue, 6/24/14, Matthew Daillie <[10]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote: > > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Swan Neck Baroque Lute for sale > To: "John Lenti" <[11]johnle...@hotmail.com> > Cc: "[12]r.turov...@gmail.com" <[13]r.turov...@gmail.com>, "sterling price" <[14]spiffys84...@yahoo.com>, "[15]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[16]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 10:42 AM > > It is feasible to redrill the bridge > holes but it's a job even (especially?) the best lute makers > hate doing (the original holes are obviously done before the > bridge is glued on). > > Best > Matthew > > > On 24 juin 2014, at 16:05, John Lenti <[17]johnle...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> Whatever else happens, it's not a huge big deal to have > the bridge re-drilled, or to get a new nut. If bridge or nut > spacing is the one thing you don't like about an instrument, > fix it. I had John Rollins re-drill my baroque lute bridge > and have never been happier. Some of the original holes are > part of the new spacing, he plugged the others. I've seen > other lutes the bridges of which look like Swiss cheese, > which also seems not to have any deleterious effects. >> >> Sent from my Ouija board >> >>> On Jun 23, 2014, at 3:39 PM, "[18]r.turov...@gmail.com" > <[19]r.turov...@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> >>> My hands are small, but I found 154mm to be the > absolute minimum I could deal with. >>> RT >>> >>> >>>> On 6/23/2014 3:49 PM, sterling price wrote: >>>> Hi--I know we have discussed > this at length before, but both of my 13 >>>> course lutes are 157mm for the > bridge spacing. I got very used to that >>>> spacing and now have a hard > time with anything smaller or different. >>>> The 157mm is based on the > Edlinger AR969 drawing. I do have pretty big >>>> hands so that size is good for > me. I have found that going between 2 >>>> different scale lengths on 2 > different lutes is no problem for the left >>>> hand, but going between 2 > different right hand spacings is impossible >>>> for me. >>>> Sterling >>>> On Monday, June 23, 2014 1:03 > PM, Matthew Daillie >>>> <[20]dail...@club-internet.fr> > wrote: >>>> I'm sorry Roman but that > really is a very personal point of view. I >>>> have a second-hand instrument > with bridge spacings of 150 mm which I >>>> find too wide and have played > well set up lutes with bridge spacings of >>>> 140 mm which are far more > comfortable. Indeed, I don't believe that I >>>> have ever come across a > 13-course with such wide spacings as the ones >>>> you recommend. >>>> The overall width of the > bridge is just one factor. The type of >>>> stringing, tension, dishing, > as well as the space between the strings >>>> of each course are certainly > others. Additionally, one's technique is >>>> obviously a major > consideration: thumb out or thumb in (if one is still >>>> trying to play renaissance > lute in conjunction with baroque), the >>>> position of the right-hand in > relation to the bridge, etc, etc >>>> best >>>> Matthew >>>> On 23 juin 2014, at 20:35, > [1][21]r.turov...@gmail.com > wrote: >>>>> I won't be able to play on less than 155mm > bridge width. >>>>> >>>>> It is a common mistake to make ca.145mm > bridges, assuming some >>>> mythical standard. >>>>> >>>>> All these instruments eventually end up on > the secondary market due >>>> to unplayability. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 23, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Anton Birula >>>> <[2][22]image...@cs.dartmouth.edu> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks David:)))))) >>>>>> Indeed this spacing is the most usual > today. I do not really know >>>> what Roman means.... Is it to > narrow for him or to wide. All our lutes >>>> have always been 146 -147, >>>>>> one can easily look for LUTEDUO on > youtube to check if it is >>>> playable or not :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Best wishes, Anna & Anton >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > -------------------------------------------- >>>>>> On Mon, 6/23/14, David Van Edwards > <[3][23]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Swan Neck > Baroque Lute for sale >>>>>> To: "Matthew Daillie" <[4][24]dail...@club-internet.fr> >>>>>> Cc: [5][25]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>>>> Date: Monday, June 23, 2014, 3:11 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear All, >>>>>> >>>>>> The variation in historical models is > very wide. >>>>>> You might be interested in these > examples. >>>>>> Players should choose for their own > comfort. >>>>>> >>>>>> BRUNER, Martin >>>>>> 1764 Prague >>>>>> >>>>>> 152 >>>>>> BURKHOLZER, Hanns 1596 >>>>>> Vienna KHM 44 / 4056 / NE >>>>>> 48 153 >>>>>> EDLINGER, Thomas >>>>>> <1734 Leipzig >>>>>> 497 >>>>>> 155 >>>>>> EDLINGER, Thomas >>>>>> <1734 Leipzig >>>>>> 3319 >>>>>> 155 >>>>>> GOLDT, Jacobus Henricus >>>>>> 1734 London >>>>>> V&A 4274-1856 > 155 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J C >>>>>> c.1720 Berlin >>>>>> 129 >>>>>> 145 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J C c. >>>>>> 1720 London, >>>>>> Horniman 1975 506 LAB >>>>>> 4792 148 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J C 1720 >>>>>> Leipzig 506 >>>>>> >>>>>> 153 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, Martin >>>>>> 169 Nurnberg GNM >>>>>> MI 245 >>>>>> 142 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J. C. 1730 >>>>>> Brussels M 3188 >>>>>> >>>>>> 141 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J. C. 1720 >>>>>> Paris CNSM E 529 >>>>>> >>>>>> 146 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J. C. c.1720 >>>>>> Horniman LAB 4792 >>>>>> 148 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, J. C.
> St. >>>>>> Petersburg 1346 >>>>>> >>>>>> 145 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, JC 1720 >>>>>> Paris E 529 >>>>>> >>>>>> 146 >>>>>> HOFFMANN, Martin 169? >>>>>> Nuernberg MI 245 >>>>>> 142 >>>>>> MALER, Laux 1555 >>>>>> Nurnberg MI 54 >>>>>> >>>>>> 143 >>>>>> RAUCHE, Michael >>>>>> 1762 London >>>>>> V&A 9-1871 >>>>>> 150 >>>>>> SCHELLE, Sebastian >>>>>> 1744/8 Nurnberg > MI >>>>>> 46 >>>>>> 142 >>>>>> SCHELLE, Sebastian >>>>>> 1721 Nurnberg >>>>>> 902 >>>>>> 143 >>>>>> SCHELLE, Sebastian 1721 >>>>>> Nuernberg MIR 902 >>>>>> 143 >>>>>> TIEFFENBRUCKER, 1610? >>>>>> Den Haag Ec 555-1933 >>>>>> 155 >>>>>> TIEFFENBRUCKER [Edlinger?] >>>>>> 1732? Vienna KHM > AR >>>>>> 969 156 >>>>>> UNVERDORBEN, Marx 1607 >>>>>> ?? Prague >>>>>> 656 >>>>>> 154 >>>>>> UNVERDORBEN, Marx 158? >>>>>> Fenton House >>>>>> 152 >>>>>> VENERE / SCHELLE >>>>>> Leipzig MIMU 3357 >>>>>> 148 >>>>>> WIDHALM, Leopold >>>>>> 1755 Nurnberg > MIR >>>>>> 903 >>>>>> 148 >>>>>> WIDHALM, Leopold 1755 >>>>>> Nurnberg MIR 903 >>>>>> 148 >>>>>> JAUCH, Andreas 1734 >>>>>> Copenhagen >>>>>> >>>>>> 161 >>>>>> JAUCK, Johannes 1734 >>>>>> Vienna KHM >>>>>> >>>>>> 165 >>>>>> >>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>> >>>>>> David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 14:01 +0200 23/6/14, Matthew Daillie > wrote: >>>>>>> I am not familiar with this lute > but 13-course >>>>>>> bridge spacings vary roughly > between 140mm and >>>>>>> 152mm so I don't see why this > pretty classic >>>>>>> R.H. spacing should make it > 'unplayable'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matthew >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23 juin 2014, at 12:17, Roman > Turovsky >>>> <[6][26]lu...@polyhymnion.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Caveat emptor. >>>>>>>> My understanding is that this > lute has bridge >>>>>> >>>>>>>> spacing of 146mm, which renders > it pretty much >>>>>>>> unplayable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> RT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/21/2014 3:20 AM, Anton > Birula wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Swan neck baroque > lute by Anatoli >>>>>>>>> Gundilowicz string length > 69/95 nice action >>>>>>>>> warm tone works well with > all sorts of >>>>>>>>> stringing, good for works > by Weiss and Bach as >>>>>>>>> well as for French > repertoire. The Body is >>>>>>>>> nice to hold not too deep. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pictures can be seen here > (9 photos) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> [7][27]https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbidx9657364401930&; id31 >>>> 01590724180 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For More information please > contact Anna >>>>>> Kowalska : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [8][28]image31...@yahoo.com >>>>>>>>> [9][29]i...@luteduo.com >>>>>>>>> +48663354744 >>>>>>>>> www.luteduo.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To get on or off this list > see list >>>>>> information at >>>>>>>>> [10][30]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The Smokehouse, >>>>>> 6 Whitwell Road, >>>>>> Norwich, NR1 4HB >>>>>> England. >>>>>> >>>>>> Telephone: + 44 (0)1603 629899 >>>>>> Website: [11][31]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To get on or off this list see list > information at >>>>>> [12][32]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> References >>>> >>>> 1. mailto:[33]r.turov...@gmail.com >>>> 2. mailto:[34]image...@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>> 3. mailto:[35]da...@vanedwards.co.uk >>>> 4. mailto:[36]dail...@club-internet.fr >>>> 5. mailto:[37]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>> 6. mailto:[38]lu...@polyhymnion.org >>>> 7. [39]https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbidx9657364401930&id3 101590724180 >>>> 8. mailto:[40]image31...@yahoo.com >>>> 9. mailto:[41]i...@luteduo.com >>>> 10. [42]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>> 11. [43]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ >>>> 12. [44]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [45]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr 2. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:johnle...@hotmail.com 4. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 5. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 6. mailto:spiffys84...@yahoo.com 7. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu 10. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr 11. mailto:johnle...@hotmail.com 12. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 13. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 14. mailto:spiffys84...@yahoo.com 15. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 16. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 17. mailto:johnle...@hotmail.com 18. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 19. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 20. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr 21. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 22. mailto:image...@cs.dartmouth.edu 23. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk 24. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr 25. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 26. mailto:lu...@polyhymnion.org 27. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbidx9657364401930&id31 28. mailto:image31...@yahoo.com 29. mailto:i...@luteduo.com 30. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 31. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 32. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 33. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com 34. mailto:image...@cs.dartmouth.edu 35. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk 36. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr 37. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 38. mailto:lu...@polyhymnion.org 39. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbidx9657364401930&id3101590724180 40. mailto:image31...@yahoo.com 41. mailto:i...@luteduo.com 42. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 43. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/ 44. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 45. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
