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Hugh, and all who are following this thread,
About the usefulness, relevance, and subtleties of placebo effects...,
First let me reinstate that - what ever placebo
is... it's totally fine by me if it heals....
Once, when working on a BD farm, I was spraying Thun Prep. in a field and I was
told by my teacher that - "... Elementals were present...". I answered: -"
Oh... I did not see that, but I can say that I was feeling really happy and
spiritual, and that my heart was in the task, full of love for the
land". Point being, we both sensed that healing energy was in
the air. I needed no further validation then my reality of my
feelings.
I would also add that the Tibetan Healers who documented about
1,600 illnesses and classifies about 300 treatment protocols, with recipes for
medicines composed from herbs, roots, fruits and minerals (including the use of
pulverized gold, pearls and coral), most certainly were aware of the
"placebo effect" (although they did not think of it in an occidental
manner). NEAT FACT: Traditional Tibetan Medicine points
to three BIODYNAMICS (...not Steiner's principles, but "Three healthogens" for
the body and not the soil - and it would certainly be interesting to draw
parallels if I had the time...), known in
Tibetan as nyes pa gsum: three (potential) pathogens. They group all the
various bodily systems into three groups (related to the elements wind, fire,
water & earth) which normally ensure the overall "good running" of the
psycho-physical complex which is a human being. When China annexed Tibet in the '50s, it outlawed
Tibetan medicine and destroyed all of the training institutes and hospitals,
imprisoning and executing the practitioners in the process. Now it is said
that only 12 trained doctors managed to escape, smuggling out the precious texts
and thangkhas (painting histories). For more reading
go to: http://www.tararokpa.org/nyespa.html
Hugh, would be kind enough to explain how it is that " ...the
placebo effect is a subtle effect parallel or analogous to subtle
radionic pattern energies...". Thanks.
Goodall,
Robin
----- Original Message -----
Sent: July 20, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: The Wizards weekend
Dear Folks,
Just to excerpt one thing from the
below--the placebo effect. What is the placebo effect? Has it not been
measured? For a long time this has been invalidated as though it didn't exist.
But it does exist, and in medical research it is extremely important to do
double blind studies so neither doctor nor volunteer knows
whether the real medicine or a placebo is administered. That is because it is
well known that just the belief that an effective medicine is administered
tends to influence the results of the experiment. When people believe they
will get well it makes a big difference from when they believe they have no
hope. Even when only the doctor believes they have a chance this influences
healing.
With radionics we DO administer patterns of energy, subtle
though they are, that can and often do influence healing. But we should not
discount the placebo effect, especially as it is another such subtle effect
parallel or anologous to our subtle radionic pattern energies. Physics, the
sceince of measurement, has gotten so sophisticated that nowadays I believe
with Fourier Interferometry and delecate ossiloscopes we can measure both
radionic and placebo effects. We have long known they were real, but without
measuring them we have tended to invalidate them as if they were not real.
That's not good science, just common science.
Best,
Hugh
Lovel
Dear Robin,
Sorry for the delay in answering your post,
things have been very busy in the period since the Wizards workshop.
Your
idea of never being able to prove anything seems to me to have some merit,
but before you can develop a theory to falsify, it becomes important to
observe the phenomena that you are trying to theorise. It was pointed out to
me some time ago that we are very good at observing phenomena, but very poor
at developing theories. You only need to look at how various fields of
scientific thought change the theory because newly observed phenomena do not
fit into existing theory. It is time that some research was done to see if
it is possible to disprove the present theories of how radionics
works.
The point of whether radionics is a placebo effect can easily be
answered by measuring the effects of radionics on plants.
If it was a
placebo effect you would expect for it not to have an effect on plants or
soil.general consensus from the Wizards conference was that in most
instances there was definite improvement in plant growth, resistance to
insect attacks, increase in the brix of plants and a general improvement in
the ability of plants to withstand drought conditions.
As to the question
of "is radionics really all that it promises to be, or yet another mystical
phenomenon that only exists for those who already have faith that is works'.
I think that you could say categorically that if you were to approach
radionic experiments from the basis that it does not work that you would get
experimenter bias where the experimenter is able to influence the result of
the experiment, however when researchers in Germany tested 14 SE5 Radionic
instruments in forestry work it was found that technicians could use
radionic instruments provided that they followed the protocols. As to how we
might measure and devise experiments I am sure that a good Bio-metrician
would be able to advise the methodologyof the research and the methods for
measuring the results.
The German Forestry researchers chose to measure
the light intensity in the forest, on the basis that if the radionic
broadcast had worked that there would be more shade due to the increased
folige.
Another method that you could test Radionic broadcast may be the
method used by the Polish forestry researcher Jerzy Macurzack to test the
effects of geopathic stress zones.
The method was very elegant. Firstly
the geopathic stress zones were identified by the use of a geomagnetometer.
Along the the stress zone were placed a series of containers filled with a
super- saturated solution of sodium chloride. In the adjacent neutral zone
an equivalent number of containers with the other half of the salt solution
were placed. They were left for a period of time and then the salt solutions
were allowed to dry naturally.
The crystalline patterns showed that there
was a definite difference in the solution that had been exposed to the
geopathic stress zones as compared to the solution exposed to the neutral
zone. An instrument that measured the emission of photons was then used to
compare photon emissions from the two samples.
The resultwqs that the
samples exposed to the geopathic stress zones emitted on average 6 times as
many photons as the samples from the neutral zones.
This experiment
proved conclusively that you could use salt solutions to measure the effects
of subtle energies. I could probablyfind you several other experiments that
have tested the effects of subtle energy, if you are interested please
contact me at
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.
The conensus, I felt after having been both a presenter and participant
at this workshop, was that the technology of radionics showed great
potential to not only ascertain and diagnose plant and soil health but to
also affect and alter them. John Pannan conclusively proved this with his
skillful use of the Don Mattioda analysis and broadcast instrument.
I
feel that it is possible build a case to de-mystify field broadcaster
technology and fit it into existing electromagnetic theory, totally able to
be measured by existing instrumentation. At this point in time I am not able
to sort out the role of intent in all of this, however it may be possible to
measure the action of intent to influence salt solutions.That is the subject
of this year's research work.
Sincere
regards from the Land of the Wizards of Oz
James Hedley
Radiasesthesia
and Radionic Analysis
Radionic Insect and Parasite control
Bioethical
Agriculture Consultant
---- Original Message -----
From:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Robin Duchesneau
To:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Monday, July 08, 2002 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: The Wizards
weekend
D&S,
The
Radionics Wizard weekend must of been very interesting indeed. The world of
subtle energies certainly can spike our curiosity. I have to admit, though,
that I like to keep a grain of skepticism when it comes to certain subject.
Because, I'd only heard a bit about radionics, I decided to look it up on
the web. The WWW is packed with pages explaining the phenomenon. Gosh...
some will even sell you a PC version?!?
First
I should say that I'm keeping my mind open to the technology, especially if
it permits us to visualize the effect of biodynamics (as in the Kolisko
research). Having said that, philosophically, I feel the need to ponder the
matter from various point of views.
Here
is what I found and wish to bring to the debate.
-
Seems like Dr. Albert Abrams started it all with the discovery that certain
diseases have specific vibratory rates that can be detected by tapping on
abdomen of spine. Then a machine containing an ohm-meter, rheostat,
condenser, and other electrical gadgets all wired together was developed to
facilitate the process of reading "subtle energies".
-
Then Dr. Ruth Drown tested the theory with experiments and even found that
one could create X-Ray like pictures of patients from a distance- any
distance- provided the operator had a blood sample. Thus she "proved that it
work". Well... hmmm... I think that one can never prove anything (or it
is very difficult), but should try to falsify a theory. It is much to easy
to become bias when "proving" something... Call it a human fault...
-
In 1950, the University of Chicago formed a committee to investigate Dr.
Drown's methods (seeing she had great success...). The official comment of
the committee turned out to be:
"...On
the face of it, the Drown claims appear to be totally unworthy of serious
consideration by anyone, least of all a university. However, certain friends
who are members of lay boards that have been of great assistance to the
university have urged that the Drown claims be investigated so that they may
be repudiated if found unworthy or adapted to the benefit of mankind if they
should prove to be worthy... "
"...The
machine is a sort of Ouija board. It is our belief that her alleged
successes rest solely on the noncritical attitude of her followers. Her
technic is to find so much trouble in so many organs that usually she can
say 'I told you so' when she registers an occasional lucky positive guess.
In these particular tests, even this luck deserted her. "
I
wonder if we are not facing a placebo effect, which is totally fine by me if
it heals, or help humanity. Or, is radionics really all that it promises to
be, or yet another mystical phenomenon that only exists for those who
already have faith that is works. In any case, I judge not, keep my mind
open, but give myself the right to question. A good debate is probably
needed...
What
is your feeling on this subject having been to a recent conference? Have you
found a pragmatic purpose for this tool for biodynamic farmers? For example,
could we use the technology to ascertain plant health, or diagnose soil
health conditions? DO have an idea what kind of experiments we could perform
to "test" the efficiency of radionics?
Finally
to quote the father of radionics:
``The physician is only allowed
to think he knows it all, but the quack, ungoverned by conscience, is
permitted to know he knows it all; and with a fertile mental field for
humbuggery, truth can never successfully compete with untruth.''
- Dr. Albert Abrams
-----
Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>D
& S Chamberlain
To:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>BDNOW
Sent: July 7, 2002
4:08 AM
Subject: The Wizards weekend
All: I have just
returned from the Radionics weekend. What a wonderful and
inspiring time
it was, I saw things and people that I have only read about
previously
and it lead me to believe that radionics has one hell of a
future, I need
time to take in all I have seen and learnt. Cheryl Kemp,
Hamish McKay and
the BDFGAA staff are to be congratulated. 44 people from as
far as the
North of Western Australia attended.
David C
Visit
our website at: www.unionag.org
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