I'm not convinced that this is an issue of ISO vs JIS. If it is, why
does Phil Wood list three types of 108mm bottom brackets: JIS low
profile, JIS, and Campagnolo? See the list here:
http://www.philwood.com/SpecStainlessBB.htm
It appears that there is a difference between ISO/Camagnolo and Low
Profile/Short Taper/Compact.
Phil Wood's explanation is this:
Campagnolo = ISO Taper ("94 & Later Campagnolo cranks
JIS =JIS & older non Low Profile cranks ("93 & earlier Campagnolo)
JIS Low Profile =JIS Taper (Low profile cranks)
There has yet to be a voice of real reason on this question. I would
be great to have an answer that adressess the question of the
difference between Low Profile and Campagnolo, and the difference
between JIS and JIS Low Profile/Short Taper/Compact.
Kudos ahead of time to the person that can do it.
-Eric
On Nov 7, 11:32 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This is the issue of European, ISO --now thought of as Campagnolo--
> standard , vs Japanese taper. The tapers are the same, but the
> starting points are different. Those who have found them incompatible
> do not understand how a wrench of such long experience as the late
> Sheldon could have found them otherwise, ever. One will not draw far
> enough on the other. The other will bottom out on the former.
>
> It happens that the length of spindle you mention is that for a
> Campagnolo Record (or Chorus).
>
> Interesting that just a few days ago, in the CR forum on bikelist.org
> you will find as explanation for the slow adoption of aluminum cranks
> over steel ones on the pro circuit, the desire for steel's narrower
> tread, or Q, is an offered explanation. Not the same thing as your
> desire to work the most inboard chainring, but close.
>
> A few more words of caution on this confusion: French Stronglight has
> sourced cranksets from Japanese SR, so whether the crank follows ISO
> or JIS depends on the model. And, someone else here can say whether
> Japanese cranksets with 144mm bolt circles, associated with the old
> Campagnolo standard, always use the JIS taper spindle or the ISO.
>
> Harry Travis.
>
> On Nov 4, 1:18 pm, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm using a 9 speed cassette on a phil wood hub, so chainline isn't as
> > much of an issue. I would like the chainline to match up as close as
> > possible to the middle cog of the cassette, but based on my
> > measurements it will likely run closer to the next smaller cog.
>
> > Any takers on defining a short taper bottom bracket (and low profile,
> > compact, etc) and explaining the reasoning behind it?
>
> > -Eric
>
> > On Nov 4, 12:02 pm, WillemJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > I don't know what hub you will be using, but if by chance it is a
> > > Rohloff hub (it is an expensive bike, I understand), you should know
> > > that these suppose an mtb chainline, where the one and only chainwheel
> > > is in the outer position of an mtb chainset. So for a perfect chain
> > > line, the bottom bracket length should be the same as when you were to
> > > use the Sugino as a triple.
> > > Willem
>
> > > On 3 nov, 20:18, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks. This is helpful. I hadn't read Sheldon's page on tapers,
> > > > though I already knew that this Sugino crank is designed for JIS
> > > > taper. Sheldon also doesn't address the terms short taper, low
> > > > profile, or compact on the page...frustrating. I had looked through
> > > > the bottom bracket size chart before, but it's not helpful since the
> > > > chart assumes the crank is being use as as triple, so it gives the
> > > > measurements I've seen elsewhere (anywhere from 107-115mm).
>
> > > > It's good to know, Andrew, that you've already done with out any
> > > > problems what I'd like to do. I still find it odd, though, that these
> > > > terms are out there, but no one has really addressed them. Does the
> > > > term short taper simply mean that the taper is shorter, and thus the
> > > > crank bolt is in contact with fewer threads in the spindle? I'm not
> > > > sure why that would be necessary or beneficial.
>
> > > > -Eric
>
> > > > On Nov 3, 2:05 pm, Andrew Karre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > I've done this, actually, and it works fine. I've used a couple of
> > > > > non-
> > > > > PW 103 mm BBs w/ the XD as well as a a PW 103 with a Suntour XC Pro
> > > > > used as a double.I find 103 to be a handy BB for lots of double
> > > > > cranks.
>
> > > > > AK
>
> > > > > On Nov 3, 12:31 pm, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I'm installing a Sugino XD500 triple crank on a new custom frame.
> > > > > > I've
> > > > > > taken off the inner two chainrings and will be using the crank with
> > > > > > just the single 48t outer chainring. I installed a temporary bottom
> > > > > > bracket in the frame to measure how short of a bottom bracket
> > > > > > spindle
> > > > > > I can use so as to achieve the smallest Q-factor (tread). The
> > > > > > temporary bottom bracket has a 115mm spindle. Based on my
> > > > > > measurements, I should be able to get by with a 103mm spindle.
>
> > > > > > I would like to use a Phil Wood bottom bracket and their 103mm
> > > > > > version
> > > > > > is listed as "short taper." I haven't been able to find a clear
> > > > > > definition of what this means. There is confusing information
> > > > > > especially on the Harrisy Cyclery web site, which seems to use the
> > > > > > terms "short taper" "low profile" and "compact" interchangeably when
> > > > > > describing bottom brackets of this type. Sheldon describes low
> > > > > > profile
> > > > > > cranks here:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cranks.html, and my
> > > > > > understanding of the term compact crank is that it refers to cranks
> > > > > > with 110/74 bcds. I'm also pretty sure that this has nothing to do
> > > > > > with difference between JIS and ISO tapers.
>
> > > > > > So my questions (finally) are:
>
> > > > > > What exactly is a short taper bottom bracket? (there is an obvious
> > > > > > answer based on its name...i'm looking for a more technical answer).
>
> > > > > > What types of cranks can be used with it?
>
> > > > > > What is the relationship between the terms short taper, low profile,
> > > > > > and compact?
>
> > > > > > Can a short taper bottom bracket be safely and appropriately used
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > a Sugino XD crank?
>
> > > > > > Will a Sugino XD crank fit differently on a short taper bottom
> > > > > > bracket, such that I will need to re-think my measurements?
>
> > > > > > Lots of questions! Thanks for all your help.
>
> > > > > > -Eric
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