[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:06 AM, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Travis, your still missing the point, so perhaps there's more > reasoning there than you think. > > I understand the concept of asymetric bb spindles, the ability to > laterally adjust PW bottom brackets, the implications of shorter bb > spindles on clearance for cranks/chainrings, and the difference > between ISO and JIS taper. > > What I don't understand is the PW bb label: JIS low-profile. > > I don't understand it, because it is distinguished from standard JIS > and from what PW refers to as Campagnolo, which I know to be ISO. To > confuse the matter further, at various places on the Harris Cyclery > web site, the terms "short taper" and "compact" are also used > interchangeably to distinguish that same bb that PW calls JIS low- > profile from other standard JIS or ISO tapered bb. > > A complete and accurate answer to my query will use and define the > terms JIS low-profile, short-taper, and compact, and will distinguish > them from ISO and standard JIS. > > > > > > On Nov 10, 4:24 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > This isn't a matter of reason, but of specification <smile> Rereading > > your first post, I see that you would prefer to be asymetric on the > > spindle, because you wish the narrowest tread or Q. If you put on a > > short spindle both crank arms will mount closer, and the left crank > > arm may hit the chainstay. Tthat would be true here for a bike with > > just 1/4 inch =6mm clearance between left chainstay and the pedal end > > of the left crankarm. > > > > Phil (PW) bottom brackets can be adjusted laterally in their cups. > > Another, less expensive approach is given here: > > > > http://house-of-yes.com/phil-wood-y-bottom-bracket/ > > > > On Nov 7, 12:01 pm, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I'm not convinced that this is an issue of ISO vs JIS. If it is, why > > > does Phil Wood list three types of 108mm bottom brackets: JIS low > > > profile, JIS, and Campagnolo? See the list here: > http://www.philwood.com/SpecStainlessBB.htm > > > > > It appears that there is a difference between ISO/Camagnolo and Low > > > Profile/Short Taper/Compact. > > > > > Phil Wood's explanation is this: > > > Campagnolo = ISO Taper ("94 & Later Campagnolo cranks > > > JIS =JIS & older non Low Profile cranks ("93 & earlier > Campagnolo) > > > JIS Low Profile =JIS Taper (Low profile cranks) > > > > > There has yet to be a voice of real reason on this question. I would > > > be great to have an answer that adressess the question of the > > > difference between Low Profile and Campagnolo, and the difference > > > between JIS and JIS Low Profile/Short Taper/Compact. > > > > > Kudos ahead of time to the person that can do it. > > > > > -Eric > > > > > On Nov 7, 11:32 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > This is the issue of European, ISO --now thought of as Campagnolo-- > > > > standard , vs Japanese taper. The tapers are the same, but the > > > > starting points are different. Those who have found them incompatible > > > > do not understand how a wrench of such long experience as the late > > > > Sheldon could have found them otherwise, ever. One will not draw far > > > > enough on the other. The other will bottom out on the former. > > > > > > It happens that the length of spindle you mention is that for a > > > > Campagnolo Record (or Chorus). > > > > > > Interesting that just a few days ago, in the CR forum on > bikelist.org > > > > you will find as explanation for the slow adoption of aluminum cranks > > > > over steel ones on the pro circuit, the desire for steel's narrower > > > > tread, or Q, is an offered explanation. Not the same thing as your > > > > desire to work the most inboard chainring, but close. > > > > > > A few more words of caution on this confusion: French Stronglight has > > > > sourced cranksets from Japanese SR, so whether the crank follows ISO > > > > or JIS depends on the model. And, someone else here can say whether > > > > Japanese cranksets with 144mm bolt circles, associated with the old > > > > Campagnolo standard, always use the JIS taper spindle or the ISO. > > > > > > Harry Travis. > > > > > > On Nov 4, 1:18 pm, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > I'm using a 9 speed cassette on a phil wood hub, so chainline isn't > as > > > > > much of an issue. I would like the chainline to match up as close > as > > > > > possible to the middle cog of the cassette, but based on my > > > > > measurements it will likely run closer to the next smaller cog. > > > > > > > Any takers on defining a short taper bottom bracket (and low > profile, > > > > > compact, etc) and explaining the reasoning behind it? > > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > On Nov 4, 12:02 pm, WillemJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't know what hub you will be using, but if by chance it is a > > > > > > Rohloff hub (it is an expensive bike, I understand), you should > know > > > > > > that these suppose an mtb chainline, where the one and only > chainwheel > > > > > > is in the outer position of an mtb chainset. So for a perfect > chain > > > > > > line, the bottom bracket length should be the same as when you > were to > > > > > > use the Sugino as a triple. > > > > > > Willem > > > > > > > > On 3 nov, 20:18, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks. This is helpful. I hadn't read Sheldon's page on > tapers, > > > > > > > though I already knew that this Sugino crank is designed for > JIS > > > > > > > taper. Sheldon also doesn't address the terms short taper, low > > > > > > > profile, or compact on the page...frustrating. I had looked > through > > > > > > > the bottom bracket size chart before, but it's not helpful > since the > > > > > > > chart assumes the crank is being use as as triple, so it gives > the > > > > > > > measurements I've seen elsewhere (anywhere from 107-115mm). > > > > > > > > > It's good to know, Andrew, that you've already done with out > any > > > > > > > problems what I'd like to do. I still find it odd, though, that > these > > > > > > > terms are out there, but no one has really addressed them. Does > the > > > > > > > term short taper simply mean that the taper is shorter, and > thus the > > > > > > > crank bolt is in contact with fewer threads in the spindle? I'm > not > > > > > > > sure why that would be necessary or beneficial. > > > > > > > > > -Eric > > > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 2:05 pm, Andrew Karre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I've done this, actually, and it works fine. I've used a > couple of non- > > > > > > > > PW 103 mm BBs w/ the XD as well as a a PW 103 with a Suntour > XC Pro > > > > > > > > used as a double.I find 103 to be a handy BB for lots of > double > > > > > > > > cranks. > > > > > > > > > > AK > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 12:31 pm, esaner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I'm installing a Sugino XD500 triple crank on a new custom > frame. I've > > > > > > > > > taken off the inner two chainrings and will be using the > crank with > > > > > > > > > just the single 48t outer chainring. I installed a > temporary bottom > > > > > > > > > bracket in the frame to measure how short of a bottom > bracket spindle > > > > > > > > > I can use so as to achieve the smallest Q-factor (tread). > The > > > > > > > > > temporary bottom bracket has a 115mm spindle. Based on my > > > > > > > > > measurements, I should be able to get by with a 103mm > spindle. > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to use a Phil Wood bottom bracket and their > 103mm version > > > > > > > > > is listed as "short taper." I haven't been able to find a > clear > > > > > > > > > definition of what this means. There is confusing > information > > > > > > > > > especially on the Harrisy Cyclery web site, which seems to > use the > > > > > > > > > terms "short taper" "low profile" and "compact" > interchangeably when > > > > > > > > > describing bottom brackets of this type. Sheldon describes > low profile > > > > > > > > > cranks here:http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cranks.html, and > my > > > > > > > > > understanding of the term compact crank is that it refers > to cranks > > > > > > > > > with 110/74 bcds. I'm also pretty sure that this has > nothing to do > > > > > > > > > with difference between JIS and ISO tapers. > > > > > > > > > > > So my questions (finally) are: > > > > > > > > > > > What exactly is a short taper bottom bracket? (there is an > obvious > > > > > > > > > answer based on its name...i'm looking for a more technical > answer). > > > > > > > > > > > What types of cranks can be used with it? > > > > > > > > > > > What is the relationship between the terms short taper, low > profile, > > > > > > > > > and compact? > > > > > > > > > > > Can a short taper bottom bracket be safely and > appropriately used with > > > > > > > > > a Sugino XD crank? > > > > > > > > > > > Will a Sugino XD crank fit differently on a short taper > bottom > > > > > > > > > bracket, such that I will need to re-think my measurements? > > > > > > > > > > > Lots of questions! Thanks for all your help. > > > > > > > > > > > -Eric > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bicycle Lifestyle" group. 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