On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 12:15:59PM -0800, Paul Rogers wrote: > > For a server, I doubt there is very much commonality. > > But, 1) the newbie isn't very likely to be asking how to build a server,
Well, the original post referred to wireshark, libpcap, unixodbc - to me those are very specialised packages. I will concede that you might build the last one on a regular desktop, but probably not as a first package. They also are well down the list of packages (chapters 11 and 17), so this isn't someone who began at the beginning and tries to build everything. Since the OP hasn't explained *what* his/her problem is, I'm hesitant to draw conclusions. > > > Normally, discussing changes to the book is done on -dev. In this > > case, since we are discussing guidance for new builders and everyone > > on -dev has probably long forgotten what it was like being new here, > > Exactly so. It has always been the case that experts who have learned > all the stuff, and are in a position to provide guidance, have forgotten > what it's like being the person needing the guidance. And with respect, I suggest that many of the packages you build are *not* the sort of things that most people will want! I still think that a typical new builder wants to get some sort of desktop running, and then they can mostly do their own thing. > > > The one good thing about a hint is that it is dated - dependencies > > change over time, what worked for me in September now doesn't work for > > all the current versions, or is suboptimal (the 'pysqlite got > > downloaded by firefox' discussion). > > Perhaps, but it doesn't seem like BLFS has, of late, been deciding on > stable releases of the book. If it were to do that, then the > dependencies should be correct for the stable release. > There was no enthusiasm from the editors - I know, I was keen on releases, but nobody else was. I'm not dismissing a newbie's "what do I want to build" section, but I think it cannot go into too much detail about dependencies, otherwise it will fairly quickly become out of date. [...] > > See previous answer and previous post. I laid out my own "Eight- > fold Path". OK, if that's your starting point I'll copy it in here and criticise - |1) Essentials: patching and updating the kernel, some nicer editors, |zip and unzip, mtools, little things I can't live without Patching and updating the kernel is covered fine by what is in a plain LFS system, it is nothing to do with BLFS. *some* nicer editors ? I only have normal numbers of fingers, so I avoid emacs and learned to use vim adequately :) Most of our users only build for their own use, but I suppose they might wish to try multiple editors the first time. Of course, for some people a nice editor means one in a gui, so that presupposes xorg. Zip is needed for firefox, otherwise it doesn't have much use on a linux system. Unzip is useful for a few things. But mtools ? |2) Networking: tcpwrappers, iptables, openssl, openssh, DHCP, |inetutils. Next time around some servers: dnsmasq, vsftpd, apache, |samba, nmap, nessus We dropped tcpwrappers - use iptables. Openssl of course. Openssh is only useful if you have a network, and many people manage to use static addressing, so they don't need DHCP. For servers, again you need a (local) network - expecting a newbie to run public-facing servers is asking for problems - and I really don't see the point of suggesting a newbie might want them : if they do want them, they'll be able to find them in the book easily enough. |3) Systems: expat, pcre, dbus, xml-parser, pci/usb utils, gamin, |smartmon tools, hdparm, parted, and (for the time being) hal The first of those are for a desktop. Smartmontools are useful, but not in the book - just CMMI. Gamin, and hal, are obsolete. Hdparm now gets minimal use - with SATA drives, my only use for it is to spin down the data drives overnight if idle, or if the temperature is rising. It used to get a lot more use with IDE drives. |4) Administrative: runparts, lynx, wget, exim, mailx/mutt, cron, |logrotate/logwatch. Then rcs/cvs/subversion, gnupg, HOWTO's Wget - of course - the OP was using that to download other packages. Lynx - yes, for those desperate moments before you have built firefox (trying to use it to find help on a build problem is NOT pleasant). Exim I suppose, if you came from debian - many people, believe it or not, do not run a mailserver, and the resto f us use postfix! But rcs and cvs? If you need to access development versions, git, perhaps mercurial, perhaps subversion. But I certainly wouldn't want to prioritise those over building a usable desktop. |5) Printing: pdq, cups, gimp-print, enscript, ghostscript, psutils I repeat - many people don't print, and the required packages vary. Also, this is far too early in the build. Oh, and s/gimp-print/gutenprint/ for the package name. |6) GUI: libpng, freetype, fontconfig, Xorg, fluxbox, rxvt, jpeg, |libtiff, xv, vidtune, dbus-X. I would replace rxvt by rxvt-unicode, but people seem to get by with xterm. I would drop xv and vidtune. Jpeg, tiff, dbus can come in the next part. |7) GTK: glib, gtk, firefox, thunderbird Thunderbird is only useful if that is where you read your mail. Many people do use it for that, so ok. For a newbie it is perhaps (the first time) worth building firefox *without* the system libraries, just to get a browser. |8) KDE: qt, ALSA, KDE If you use KDE. By this point in the build, users should be able to make a choice. However, I build alsa *much* earlier than this. People using KDE and gnome now use pulse for audio [ not *my* choice ]. ĸen -- das eine Mal als Tragödie, das andere Mal als Farce -- http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/blfs-support FAQ: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/faq.html Unsubscribe: See the above information page
