LGTM3.

-mike


On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 8:29 AM Daniel Bratell <[email protected]> wrote:

> LGTM2, same limitation.
>
> /Daniel
> On 2021-12-09 07:51, Yoav Weiss wrote:
>
> LGTM1 to ship `dynamic-range` without the video prefixed variant.
>
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:42 AM Will Cassella <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the delay! I'm currently working on that, it'll most likely be
>> up some time tomorrow. That only covers the video-* media features,
>> given that Safari has already shipped the regular (non-prefixed)
>> dynamic-range media feature, should we go ahead with shipping that and
>> follow up with video-dynamic-range after TAG review in a separate I2S?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 8:34 AM Mike West <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Friendly ping on Yoav's suggestion. Did y'all file a TAG review request?
>>>
>>> -mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 11:47 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since we're talking about adding a full new class of MQs, that seems
>>>> worthy of a TAG discussion.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 1:38:13 AM UTC+1 Will Cassella wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for missing that! There's a section in the spec for 'video-*'
>>>>> MQ's
>>>>> <https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#video-prefixed-features>,
>>>>> and while this is the first to be implemented in Chrome there are others
>>>>> detailed there (most notably video-color-gamut). The 'video-*' MQ
>>>>> concept has not been discussed with TAG, but it was discussed at great
>>>>> length between the media and CSS WGs. You can see the start of that
>>>>> discussion in the media WG here
>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/135>, and its jump
>>>>> to the CSS WG here <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471>.
>>>>> In both places we had representation from different user agents and domain
>>>>> experts.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:51 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the update!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repeating my question from above, that probably got lost along the
>>>>>> way: Was the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there
>>>>>> other `video-*` MQs that are already shipped?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 9:33 PM Will Cassella <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's been movement on the Github issue
>>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793#issuecomment-973647057>
>>>>>>>  regarding
>>>>>>> the spec, and the consensus is that the way Safari has done things 
>>>>>>> (having dynamic-range:
>>>>>>> standard always return true, and dynamic-range: high be evaluated
>>>>>>> against the capabilities of the display) is what we should be doing, and
>>>>>>> the wording of the spec should be adjusted as well. I've updated our
>>>>>>> implementation to reflect that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM Chris Harrelson <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ok thanks. It looks like the CSSWG discussed the issue and there
>>>>>>>> still needs to be more discussion before a resolution is achieved, so 
>>>>>>>> we'll
>>>>>>>> wait for that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:45 PM Will Cassella <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey Chris,
>>>>>>>>> I’ve filed an issue on the csswg-drafts repo
>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793> asking for the
>>>>>>>>> wording to be adjusted in the spec. In the original discussion 
>>>>>>>>> surrounding
>>>>>>>>> this media query, the intent was for this to be reflective of the 
>>>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>> device and not an overall representation of the user agent's 
>>>>>>>>> capabilities.
>>>>>>>>> I did some research into Safari's implementation
>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/blob/e1adc392ff841dee89aab69af21e3c429e4d5c88/Source/WebCore/css/MediaQueryEvaluator.cpp#L453>
>>>>>>>>> of this query, and while they similarly implement dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>> high with respect to the display device, their treatment of 
>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>> standard isn't in line with the spec (it always returns true,
>>>>>>>>> even on HDR displays). After some discussion with +chcunningham, we 
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> this may be the correct path forward for Chrome as well as sites are
>>>>>>>>> already using this query on Safari, and it makes sense from a 
>>>>>>>>> backwards
>>>>>>>>> compatibility standpoint (how should dynamic-range: high react if
>>>>>>>>> an ultra-high enum is ever added?). I'm still waiting to get
>>>>>>>>> feedback on the Github issue I filed at the moment.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 12:30 PM Chris Harrelson <
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions,
>>>>>>>>>> so far in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando
>>>>>>>>>>>> Serboncini wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [coming from the other thread... :) ]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> high right now would be useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spec could use some clarification:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with/without alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I may be wrong here).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an expert,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I know those exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd ask for a rationale here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> media query, but the risk here would be to release a semantic that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guarantees very little, and therefore is not useful in the long 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> run.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation should report (dynamic-range: standard) and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (video-dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high).  It would be great to see the spec clarified to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it clearer what UA support is expected for each, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion here):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spec
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> requires
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fulfill all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range.  Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colors in CSS,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTML, or Canvas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based
>>>>>>>>>>>> on this thread
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 support? Or something else?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for
>>>>>>>>>>> canvas (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively 
>>>>>>>>>>> about it)
>>>>>>>>>>> but I don't think we do in HTML or CSS.  (I also should have 
>>>>>>>>>>> included
>>>>>>>>>>> images in my list, though I think if we have support with canvas 
>>>>>>>>>>> then we
>>>>>>>>>>> probably do for images as well.).)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut
>>>>>>>>>>>> (but rather about color depth
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), although it
>>>>>>>>>>>> may be possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1:1. Can
>>>>>>>>>>>> you clarify if that's what you meant?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements rather than just using the term "wide-gamut".  You're 
>>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>>> that it's not 1:1, though I think that in practice an 
>>>>>>>>>>> implementation is
>>>>>>>>>>> unlikely to meet the spec's requirements on color depth and 
>>>>>>>>>>> contrast ratio
>>>>>>>>>>> without supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in
>>>>>>>>>>> the spec, perhaps not for canvas or images as well.)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -David
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high) is true based only on the device, which is what it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks to me like the current code
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  does.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to what it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't say that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports wide-gamut colors in at least some and maybe all of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the web the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intent isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do already support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> element, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having these queries exist to let developers detect display 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've created
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pull requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frontend to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enable this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynens wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emails [email protected],
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected], [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Explainer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current display device’s support for HDR. This feature 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adds two new CSS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both of which may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> queries according
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the capabilities of the display device the browser 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> window is currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accordingly or respond in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>CSS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Motivation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developers need ways to enable HDR content on their web 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compromising the experience for users of non-HDR displays, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or mixed-HDR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multi-display setups. CSS already provides the 'media 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> query' concept for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toggling rules based on display device characteristics, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this feature
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extends that set of queries to enable detecting HDR support 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display device.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review Not Filed. This is an incremental change to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CSS Media Queries, already adopted by CSS WG.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range`
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MQ, as it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `video-*` MQs that are already shipped?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review status Not applicable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive (
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elaborate on this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensure DevTools
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports basic editing of this new media query. It looks 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like this works
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the box in Canary.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ? Yes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag name CSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug https://crbug.com/1224711
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones 97
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Status <https://www.chromestatus.com/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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