LGTM1 to ship `dynamic-range` without the video prefixed variant. On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 4:42 AM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Sorry for the delay! I'm currently working on that, it'll most likely be > up some time tomorrow. That only covers the video-* media features, given > that Safari has already shipped the regular (non-prefixed) dynamic-range media > feature, should we go ahead with shipping that and follow up with > video-dynamic-range after TAG review in a separate I2S? > > On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 8:34 AM Mike West <mk...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> Friendly ping on Yoav's suggestion. Did y'all file a TAG review request? >> >> -mike >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 11:47 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Since we're talking about adding a full new class of MQs, that seems >>> worthy of a TAG discussion. >>> >>> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 1:38:13 AM UTC+1 Will Cassella wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry for missing that! There's a section in the spec for 'video-*' >>>> MQ's <https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-5/#video-prefixed-features>, >>>> and while this is the first to be implemented in Chrome there are others >>>> detailed there (most notably video-color-gamut). The 'video-*' MQ >>>> concept has not been discussed with TAG, but it was discussed at great >>>> length between the media and CSS WGs. You can see the start of that >>>> discussion in the media WG here >>>> <https://github.com/w3c/media-capabilities/issues/135>, and its jump >>>> to the CSS WG here <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471>. >>>> In both places we had representation from different user agents and domain >>>> experts. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 25, 2021 at 12:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the update! >>>>> >>>>> Repeating my question from above, that probably got lost along the >>>>> way: Was the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there >>>>> other `video-*` MQs that are already shipped? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 9:33 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There's been movement on the Github issue >>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793#issuecomment-973647057> >>>>>> regarding >>>>>> the spec, and the consensus is that the way Safari has done things >>>>>> (having dynamic-range: >>>>>> standard always return true, and dynamic-range: high be evaluated >>>>>> against the capabilities of the display) is what we should be doing, and >>>>>> the wording of the spec should be adjusted as well. I've updated our >>>>>> implementation to reflect that. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 12:04 PM Chris Harrelson < >>>>>> chris...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok thanks. It looks like the CSSWG discussed the issue and there >>>>>>> still needs to be more discussion before a resolution is achieved, so >>>>>>> we'll >>>>>>> wait for that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:45 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey Chris, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’ve filed an issue on the csswg-drafts repo >>>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/6793> asking for the >>>>>>>> wording to be adjusted in the spec. In the original discussion >>>>>>>> surrounding >>>>>>>> this media query, the intent was for this to be reflective of the >>>>>>>> display >>>>>>>> device and not an overall representation of the user agent's >>>>>>>> capabilities. >>>>>>>> I did some research into Safari's implementation >>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/blob/e1adc392ff841dee89aab69af21e3c429e4d5c88/Source/WebCore/css/MediaQueryEvaluator.cpp#L453> >>>>>>>> of this query, and while they similarly implement dynamic-range: >>>>>>>> high with respect to the display device, their treatment of >>>>>>>> dynamic-range: >>>>>>>> standard isn't in line with the spec (it always returns true, even >>>>>>>> on HDR displays). After some discussion with +chcunningham, we think >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> may be the correct path forward for Chrome as well as sites are already >>>>>>>> using this query on Safari, and it makes sense from a backwards >>>>>>>> compatibility standpoint (how should dynamic-range: high react if >>>>>>>> an ultra-high enum is ever added?). I'm still waiting to get >>>>>>>> feedback on the Github issue I filed at the moment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Will >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 12:30 PM Chris Harrelson < >>>>>>>> chris...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions, >>>>>>>>> so far in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? >>>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss < >>>>>>>>>> yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando >>>>>>>>>>> Serboncini wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [coming from the other thread... :) ] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning >>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>>>>> high right now would be useful. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The spec could use some clarification: >>>>>>>>>>>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different >>>>>>>>>>>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ... >>>>>>>>>>>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both >>>>>>>>>>>> with/without alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences >>>>>>>>>>>> there, >>>>>>>>>>>> but I may be wrong here). >>>>>>>>>>>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness >>>>>>>>>>>> should match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an >>>>>>>>>>>> expert, >>>>>>>>>>>> but I know those exist. >>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd ask for a rationale here. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media >>>>>>>>>>>> query, but the risk here would be to release a semantic that >>>>>>>>>>>> guarantees >>>>>>>>>>>> very little, and therefore is not useful in the long run. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron < >>>>>>>>>>>> dba...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an >>>>>>>>>>>>> implementation should report (dynamic-range: standard) and >>>>>>>>>>>>> (video-dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>>>>>> high). It would be great to see the spec clarified to make >>>>>>>>>>>>> it clearer what UA support is expected for each, though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion here): >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The spec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> requires >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fulfill all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range. Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colors in CSS, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HTML, or Canvas >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based >>>>>>>>>>> on this thread >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>) >>>>>>>>>>> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas. >>>>>>>>>>> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level >>>>>>>>>>> 4 support? Or something else? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for >>>>>>>>>> canvas (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively >>>>>>>>>> about it) >>>>>>>>>> but I don't think we do in HTML or CSS. (I also should have included >>>>>>>>>> images in my list, though I think if we have support with canvas >>>>>>>>>> then we >>>>>>>>>> probably do for images as well.).) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut >>>>>>>>>>> (but rather about color depth >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), although it may >>>>>>>>>>> be possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate 1:1. >>>>>>>>>>> Can you >>>>>>>>>>> clarify if that's what you meant? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's >>>>>>>>>> requirements rather than just using the term "wide-gamut". You're >>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>> that it's not 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> unlikely to meet the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast >>>>>>>>>> ratio >>>>>>>>>> without supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in >>>>>>>>>> the spec, perhaps not for canvas or images as well.) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high) is true based only on the device, which is what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks to me like the current code >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to what it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't say that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports wide-gamut colors in at least some and maybe all of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those contexts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the web the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> intent isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do already support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> element, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> having these queries exist to let developers detect display >>>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already useful. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've created >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pull requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frontend to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enable this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynens wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cas...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact emailscas...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chcunning...@chromium.org, videostack-...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current display device’s support for HDR. This feature >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adds two new CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> media queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both of which may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> queries according >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the capabilities of the display device the browser window >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is currently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accordingly or respond in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developers need ways to enable HDR content on their web >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pages without >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compromising the experience for users of non-HDR displays, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or mixed-HDR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multi-display setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concept for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toggling rules based on display device characteristics, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this feature >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extends that set of queries to enable detecting HDR support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> display device. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CSS Media Queries, already adopted by CSS WG. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MQ, as it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the concept of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> `video-*` MQs that are already shipped? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supported >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elaborate on this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensure DevTools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports basic editing of this new media query. It looks like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this works >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of the box in Canary. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Status 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