Hi, there were some discussions of the spec, and other questions, so far in the thread. Will, could you summarize the current status? Thanks.
On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:04 PM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando Serboncini >> wrote: >> >>> [coming from the other thread... :) ] >>> >>> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning dynamic-range: >>> high right now would be useful. >>> >>> The spec could use some clarification: >>> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different >>> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ... >>> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both with/without >>> alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences there, but I may be >>> wrong here). >>> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness should >>> match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an expert, but I >>> know those exist. >>> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but I'd ask >>> for a rationale here. >>> >>> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media query, >>> but the risk here would be to release a semantic that guarantees very >>> little, and therefore is not useful in the long run. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an implementation >>>> should report (dynamic-range: standard) and (video-dynamic-range: high). >>>> It would be great to see the spec clarified to make it clearer what UA >>>> support is expected for each, though. >>>> >>>> -David >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the discussion >>>>> here): >>>>> >>>>> The spec <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> requires >>>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device fulfill all >>>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be high >>>>>> dynamic-range. Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut colors in CSS, >>>>>> HTML, or Canvas >>>>> >>>>> >> David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based on this >> thread >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>) >> that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas. >> Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level 4 >> support? Or something else? >> > > That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for canvas > (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively about it) but I > don't think we do in HTML or CSS. (I also should have included images in > my list, though I think if we have support with canvas then we probably do > for images as well.).) > > >> I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut (but >> rather about color depth <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), >> although it may be possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate >> 1:1. Can you clarify if that's what you meant? >> > > I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's requirements > rather than just using the term "wide-gamut". You're correct that it's not > 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation is unlikely to meet > the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast ratio without > supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut. > > (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in the spec, > perhaps not for canvas or images as well.) > > -David > > >> >> >>> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range: high) is >>>>>> true based only on the device, which is what it looks to me like the >>>>>> current >>>>>> code >>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0> >>>>>> does. >>>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as to what it >>>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the >>>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my understanding >>>>>> of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome probably shouldn't say >>>>>> that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it supports wide-gamut >>>>>> colors in at least some and maybe all of those contexts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification, since >>>>> we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on the web the intent >>>>> isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We do already >>>>> support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> element, so having >>>>> these >>>>> queries exist to let developers detect display capabilities is already >>>>> useful. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in the >>>>>>> devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. I've created pull >>>>>>> requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools frontend to >>>>>>> enable >>>>>>> this. https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613 >>>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias Bynens >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Contact emailscas...@chromium.org, chcunning...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>>> videostack-...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays >>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Specificationhttps://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect the current >>>>>>>>> display device’s support for HDR. This feature adds two new CSS media >>>>>>>>> queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', both of which may >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these queries >>>>>>>>> according to >>>>>>>>> the capabilities of the display device the browser window is currently >>>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules accordingly or >>>>>>>>> respond in >>>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web developers need >>>>>>>>> ways to enable HDR content on their web pages without compromising the >>>>>>>>> experience for users of non-HDR displays, or mixed-HDR multi-display >>>>>>>>> setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' concept for toggling >>>>>>>>> rules >>>>>>>>> based on display device characteristics, and this feature extends >>>>>>>>> that set >>>>>>>>> of queries to enable detecting HDR support on the current display >>>>>>>>> device. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to CSS Media >>>>>>>>> Queries, already adopted by CSS WG. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` MQ, as >>>>>> it's shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG. >>>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was the concept >>>>>> of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other `video-*` MQs >>>>>> that >>>>>> are already shipped? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping ( >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/) >>>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet supported >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935) >>>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and elaborate on >>>>>>>> this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to ensure DevTools supports >>>>>>>> basic >>>>>>>> editing of this new media query. It looks like this works out of the >>>>>>>> box in >>>>>>>> Canary. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3iqUMAHBvXyqNQ8p2QPdSOTc7u4o8waE5GZ80_Aehnw%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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