On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 6:07 AM Kentaro Hara <hara...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Thanks all for the input! > > Dana: > >> This list includes per-file owners, did the script look for 100 CLs in >> those files named by the rule when deciding to remove the person? > > > Thanks for pointing this out! I'll exclude per-file owners from the list > for now. > > Peter: > >> I'm worried that this process excludes/penalizes folks who may be OOO for >> extended leave (incl long stretches of parental leave, bereavement) and >> have that in their Gerrit status. This should not be a source of review >> latency, if it is Gerrit should better surface that they are OOO. >> Are any of the inactive owners, who did opt out last time, a source of >> review latency? I.e. are reviews assigned to them but they don't review >> them within some SLO window? Otherwise I strongly suggest we let folks >> decline the OWNERS removal (at other OWNERS' discretion who should probably >> review removal CLs). > > > I think Glen covered this topic very well. As written in this guideline > <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/code_reviews.md#expectations-of-owners>, > owners are expected to be an active contributor to the directory ("Have the > bandwidth to contribute to reviews in a timely manner. ... Don't try to > discourage people from sending reviews, including writing “slow” or > “emeritus” after your name."). If you are on an extended leave and removed > by this process, you can explain it and re-add yourself through the owner > nomination process. Will it work? > The next guideline <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/code_reviews.md#removal-of-owners> (on removal of owners) explicitly excludes owners who are on leave. I don't think we should be adding additional friction for folks who go on leave; the default assumption should be that when they return, they are just as capable of being a good owner as when they left, without them having to re-nominate themselves. > > Matt: > >> Maybe it would make more sense to identify OWNERS who are not active >> globally in chrome/, instead of owners not active in a particular >> directory? How common are OWNERS active in Chrome, but high latency only >> for specific directories? > > > My personal opinion is that owners who made no contributions globally in > the past 6 months *or* owners who made no contribution to the directory > they own while there were 100+ commits in the past 6 months can be > identified as inactive owners. > > Note that this is not an irreversible process. When you have a reason, you > can explain it and re-add yourself through the owner nomination process. > > I'm asking as someone who was recently inundated by auto-generated >> removal CLs, the majority of which did not make sense (admittedly, I >> believe it wasn't based on activity). The tool even seemed to want to >> remove all owners from some directories. > > > Right, the removal tool is not looking at activities, and this proposed > process is different from it. FWIW when I removed ~500 inactive owners last > year, it ended up removing (only) ~10 OWNERS files. So removing all owners > from some directories will be rare. > > Pavel: > >> The data in the table seems off, what is considered a "review": is that a >> "Code Review +1" or is that any review comment? > > > "Code Review +1" in the git commit log is considered as "review". > > >> I also have an edge case where I'm mostly interested in several files in >> a folder where other files are being changed more frequently, should I be >> optimizing OWNERS to list myself as per-file? > > > This sounds reasonable to me :) > > Glen: > >> I recently tried a similar automated audit of inactive owners - I looked >> for anyone who hadn't reviewed or authored a CL in 12 months anywhere, >> regardless of activity in the directory and found (as list, Google internal >> only) many accounts that no longer exist (or perhaps never did) in OWNERS. >> It probably has different false positives than the proposed set above. >> Maybe the intersection of the two sets would be sensible? > > > I'm happy to tweak the criteria depending on the conclusion of this email > thread :) > > > On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 3:32 PM Glen Robertson <glen...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> > Having your name on OWNERS is an award for your previous amazing >> contributions >> I'm concerned that being in OWNERS is regarded as a reward, and being >> removed as a penalty -- it is part of the problem with cleaning up inactive >> OWNERS. I'd much prefer to have a separate "amazing contributors" file to >> list people who have made amazing contributions, without this affecting the >> code review process. >> >> Owners are supposed to be >> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/code_reviews.md#expectations-of-owners> >> active reviewers for a directory. I'd even expect us to remove people who >> go on long leave, unless Gerrit can understand that status and avoid >> suggesting them for reviews (currently it does not do that well). Re-adding >> an owner is not an arduous process, but adding days to a code review is a >> significant cost. >> >> I recently tried a similar automated audit of inactive owners - I looked >> for anyone who hadn't reviewed or authored a CL in 12 months anywhere, >> regardless of activity in the directory and found >> <https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/3750667> (as >> list, Google internal only >> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BWvj44vJUjSXUHI85fJwX8AgIoYR5SkAm378pp80ljw/edit?resourcekey=0-7pInBE4h65x3c5t6Af1hbA#gid=0>) >> many accounts that no longer exist (or perhaps never did) in OWNERS. It >> probably has different false positives than the proposed set above. Maybe >> the intersection of the two sets would be sensible? >> >> On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 at 07:45, Pavel Feldman <pfeld...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> The data in the table seems off, what is considered a "review": is that >>> a "Code Review +1" or is that any review comment? >>> I also have an edge case where I'm mostly interested in several files in >>> a folder where other files are being changed more frequently, should I be >>> optimizing OWNERS to list myself as per-file? >>> >>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 2:16:47 PM UTC-7 Matt Menke wrote: >>> >>>> Maybe it would make more sense to identify OWNERS who are not active >>>> globally in chrome/, instead of owners not active in a particular >>>> directory? How common are OWNERS active in Chrome, but high latency only >>>> for specific directories? I'm asking as someone who was recently inundated >>>> by auto-generated removal CLs, the majority of which did not make sense >>>> (admittedly, I believe it wasn't based on activity). The tool even seemed >>>> to want to remove all owners from some directories. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 5:03:05 PM UTC-4 k...@chromium.org >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I echo Dana's concern about removing per-file owners and would like to >>>>> see that policy rethought. Agree with Peter's observations as well. >>>>> >>>>> -Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 9:12 AM Peter Boström <pb...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm worried that this process excludes/penalizes folks who may be OOO >>>>>> for extended leave (incl long stretches of parental leave, bereavement) >>>>>> and >>>>>> have that in their Gerrit status. This should not be a source of review >>>>>> latency, if it is Gerrit should better surface that they are OOO. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are any of the inactive owners, who did opt out last time, a source >>>>>> of review latency? I.e. are reviews assigned to them but they don't >>>>>> review >>>>>> them within some SLO window? Otherwise I strongly suggest we let folks >>>>>> decline the OWNERS removal (at other OWNERS' discretion who should >>>>>> probably >>>>>> review removal CLs). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2022 at 8:08 AM <dan...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> This list includes per-file owners, did the script look for 100 CLs in >>>>> *those >>>>>>> files* named by the rule when deciding to remove the person? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 9:16 PM Kentaro Hara <har...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As of 2022 July, Chromium has 4531 OWNERS files containing 6850 >>>>>>>> names. These include inactive owners, which are one of the sources of >>>>>>>> slow >>>>>>>> code review latency. One year ago, we cleaned up inactive owners >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/chromium-dev/c/MpOgk56qKS0/m/HHy7G19oAwAJ> >>>>>>>> and removed ~500 inactive owners. I propose running the clean-up >>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>> again to keep the OWNERS files updated. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Specifically, a person is identified as an "inactive" owner iff: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The person didn't commit or review any CLs in the directory >>>>>>>> they own while there were 100+ CLs that touched the directory in >>>>>>>> the past 6 >>>>>>>> months (as of July 6, 2022). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Last year, I gave the inactive owners an option to flip the >>>>>>>> decision manually to stay as an owner, but for this cycle, I'm >>>>>>>> planning to >>>>>>>> remove the inactive owners unconditionally. The rationale is 1) if the >>>>>>>> person made no contribution on a very active directory for 6 months, it >>>>>>>> will be reasonable to say that the person is inactive, and 2) if there >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> any special reason for it and the person needs to stay as an owner, the >>>>>>>> person can show evidence that they are meeting the owners >>>>>>>> expectations >>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/code_reviews.md#expectations-of-owners> >>>>>>>> and be readded through the standard OWNERS nomination process. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Specifically, people listed in this spreadsheet >>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJbXzTaoITvCDmQaqMmGCvfOngrcFtMPmMsGhHgEV_4/edit#gid=0> >>>>>>>> are identified as inactive owners and will be removed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I understand this is a tricky proposal. Having your name on OWNERS >>>>>>>> is an award for your previous amazing contributions, and I understand >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> feeling about your name being removed. However, I think it's important >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> keep the OWNERS files updated so that Chromium developers can find >>>>>>>> active >>>>>>>> owners and improve the code review latency. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions / concerns, please let me know. Thanks! >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Kentaro Hara, Tokyo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg10jyArLjDp0ixPu%2BCSZ9NVrn0M1GwNFiJqiPGRE1f0mrbfQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg10jyArLjDp0ixPu%2BCSZ9NVrn0M1GwNFiJqiPGRE1f0mrbfQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Chromium-dev" group. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/chromium-dev/CAHtyhaTNC4tgQbqbUq%2BQdFfcORr3aFobjgbeE%2BTaVf7eDgU2Bg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/chromium-dev/CAHtyhaTNC4tgQbqbUq%2BQdFfcORr3aFobjgbeE%2BTaVf7eDgU2Bg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Chromium Developers mailing list: chromi...@chromium.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-dev >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Chromium-dev" group. >>>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to chromium-dev...@chromium.org. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/chromium-dev/CAGFX3sFB9G8R2MyHT6rjVtEFRAKMeyCTH6Yu0DYqUOfLPCxCBw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/chromium-dev/CAGFX3sFB9G8R2MyHT6rjVtEFRAKMeyCTH6Yu0DYqUOfLPCxCBw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/0a2a01e2-652b-4e31-895c-f020e7b46358n%40chromium.org >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/0a2a01e2-652b-4e31-895c-f020e7b46358n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> > > -- > Kentaro Hara, Tokyo > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg10jyCNN1%3DpfT%3DCWPmc4%2Bi9PmGs-%3DbX9e2mUi2bHthF%2B0w-w%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg10jyCNN1%3DpfT%3DCWPmc4%2Bi9PmGs-%3DbX9e2mUi2bHthF%2B0w-w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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