Hey folks, I'm fine with the OT extension based on the rationale and limits others have set in this thread, but would like to understand why we aren't shipping an MVP today and running the rest of these enhancements as separate OTs/launches to fill in gaps as they stabilise. WebGPU is already late, and it will be healthier for the team, the ecosystem, and the standardisation process for a committed, stabilised subset to exist in the wild after such an extensive feedback period.
What's keeping that from happening today or in the next release or two? Best Regards, Alex On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 5:03:10 AM UTC-7 Corentin Wallez wrote: > Sounds good, we'll go with a pause of two weeks when M106 hits stable then. > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 1:58 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> That's up to you. I don't think there's any particular convention. >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 1:50 PM Corentin Wallez <cwal...@chromium.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you everyone! Is there a usual schedule for the pause in the OT, >>> for example making it start when M106 hits stable? >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 1:41 PM Daniel Bratell <bratel...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> LGTM3 >>>> >>>> /Daniel >>>> On 2022-07-19 19:25, Mike Taylor wrote: >>>> >>>> LGTM2. I think this meets the bar of "substantial progress". >>>> >>>> On 7/19/22 1:19 PM, Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>> >>>> Since this goes beyond the 12 milestones timeline, this requires 3 >>>> LGTMs. >>>> >>>> LGTM1 to experiment till M105-M109, with a 2 weeks break in the OT to >>>> reduce burn-in risk. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 11:50 PM Ken Russell <k...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Blink developers and owners, >>>>> >>>>> Hoping for positive feedback from the Blink API OWNERS. The >>>>> specification discussions among browser vendors are converging well. This >>>>> request for Origin Trial extension - the last one our team plans to make >>>>> - >>>>> is needed at this critical juncture to allow the most developers to >>>>> provide >>>>> feedback on some crucial API and semantic changes. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> -Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 7:54 AM Corentin Wallez <cwal...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey Blink API owners, >>>>>> The origin trial for WebGPU was started in M94 and was extended >>>>>> multiple times until M105. We are asking to extend for 4 additional >>>>>> releases to M109 so that we can keep experimenting and gathering >>>>>> feedback >>>>>> from developers. Note however that this will make the WebGPU Origin >>>>>> Trial >>>>>> past the 12 milestone mark so it will need special approval. We are >>>>>> ready >>>>>> to pause the OT for some time (2 weeks was mentioned) to prevent the >>>>>> risk >>>>>> of burn-in. >>>>>> >>>>>> Particularly important pieces of feedback that we are currently >>>>>> investigating are: >>>>>> >>>>>> - WGSL has a novel "uniformity analysis" type system that is >>>>>> taking some time to bake. The group has addressed multiple pieces of >>>>>> feedback from developers and continued experimentation will help make >>>>>> sure >>>>>> developers can use WGSL even with these added constraints. >>>>>> - The WebGPU API recently gained an API for the browser to >>>>>> optionally surface information about the GPU being used (vendor / >>>>>> architecture). It has been implemented in Chromium only recently and >>>>>> we are >>>>>> seeking feedback from developers. >>>>>> - We are continuing experimentation of WebGPU-based video >>>>>> processing. The optimizations require quite some complex work on the >>>>>> GPU >>>>>> stack and there are still gains to be expected so we'd like to let >>>>>> some >>>>>> developers test in the wild. >>>>>> >>>>>> A signal of note is that the group is already planning the transition >>>>>> to Candidate Recommendation for the WebGPU API and WGSL specifications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>> cwal...@chromium.org, bclay...@chromium.org, kain...@chromium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Explainer https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/explainer/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Specification https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Design docs >>>>>> https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/ >>>>>> https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/wgsl/ >>>>>> https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/explainer/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> The WebGPU API is the successor to the WebGL and WebGL 2 graphics >>>>>> APIs for the Web. It will provide modern features such as “GPU compute” >>>>>> as >>>>>> well as lower overhead access to GPU hardware and better, more >>>>>> predictable >>>>>> performance. WebGPU is being developed by the “GPU for the Web” W3C >>>>>> community group. >>>>>> >>>>>> The origin trial for WebGPU was started in M94 and was extended >>>>>> multiple times until M105. We are asking to extend for 4 additional >>>>>> releases to M109 so that we can keep experimenting and gathering >>>>>> feedback >>>>>> from developers. Note however that this will make the WebGPU Origin >>>>>> Trial >>>>>> past the 12 milestone mark so it will need special approval. We are >>>>>> ready >>>>>> to pause the OT for some time (2 weeks was mentioned) to prevent the >>>>>> risk >>>>>> of burn-in. >>>>>> >>>>>> Particularly important pieces of feedback that we are currently >>>>>> investigating are: >>>>>> >>>>>> - WGSL has a novel "uniformity analysis" type system that is >>>>>> taking some time to bake. The group has addressed multiple pieces of >>>>>> feedback from developers and continued experimentation will help make >>>>>> sure >>>>>> developers can use WGSL even with these added constraints. >>>>>> - The WebGPU API recently gained an API for the browser to >>>>>> optionally surface information about the GPU being used (vendor / >>>>>> architecture). It has been implemented in Chromium only recently and >>>>>> we are >>>>>> seeking feedback from developers. >>>>>> - We are continuing experimentation of WebGPU-based video >>>>>> processing. The optimizations require quite some complex work on the >>>>>> GPU >>>>>> stack and there are still gains to be expected so we'd like to let >>>>>> some >>>>>> developers test in the wild. >>>>>> >>>>>> A signal of note is that the group is already planning the transition >>>>>> to Candidate Recommendation for the WebGPU API and WGSL specifications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink component Blink>WebGPU >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EWebGPU> >>>>>> >>>>>> Search tags gpu <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:gpu>, webgl >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:webgl> >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/626 >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review status Complete (with LGTM)! >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> With positive signals (and at least WIP implementations) from all >>>>>> browsers, the biggest interoperability risk is the surface of the API >>>>>> which >>>>>> is quite large. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gecko: In development ( >>>>>> https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/dom/webgpu) >>>>>> >>>>>> WebKit: In development ( >>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/WebKit/tree/main/Source/WebGPU/WebGPU) >>>>>> >>>>>> Web developers: Strongly positive ( >>>>>> https://doc.babylonjs.com/extensions/webgpu) Significant interest >>>>>> and positive feedback from the many early adopters (Babylon.js, Earth, >>>>>> TF.js, sokol-gfx, and many many others). >>>>>> >>>>>> Activation >>>>>> >>>>>> WebGPU is not polyfillable on existing APIs and requires hardware >>>>>> support on the system. (software fallback is not enabled by default yet). >>>>>> >>>>>> Security >>>>>> >>>>>> See detailed security explainer: >>>>>> https://gpuweb.github.io/gpuweb/#malicious-use >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Goals for experimentation >>>>>> >>>>>> Allow developers to use WebGPU and provide feedback on the API or the >>>>>> shading language. We expect feedback about ergonomics, ease of use and >>>>>> ease >>>>>> of porting existing content to WebGPU, and missing features. As well as >>>>>> many bug reports :) Also help partners evaluate the performance of >>>>>> WebGPU >>>>>> in the wild to figure out areas of the implementation to optimize before >>>>>> launch. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Reason this experiment is being extended The origin trial for WebGPU >>>>>> was started in M94 and was extended multiple times until M105. We are >>>>>> asking to extend for 4 additional releases to M109 so that we can keep >>>>>> experimenting and gathering feedback from developers. Note however that >>>>>> this will make the WebGPU Origin Trial past the 12 milestone mark so it >>>>>> will need special approval. We are ready to pause the OT for some time >>>>>> (2 >>>>>> weeks was mentioned) to prevent the risk of burn-in. >>>>>> >>>>>> Particularly important pieces of feedback that we are currently >>>>>> investigating are: >>>>>> >>>>>> - WGSL has a novel "uniformity analysis" type system that is >>>>>> taking some time to bake. The group has addressed multiple pieces of >>>>>> feedback from developers and continued experimentation will help make >>>>>> sure >>>>>> developers can use WGSL even with these added constraints. >>>>>> - The WebGPU API recently gained an API for the browser to >>>>>> optionally surface information about the GPU being used (vendor / >>>>>> architecture). It has been implemented in Chromium only recently and >>>>>> we are >>>>>> seeking feedback from developers. >>>>>> - We are continuing experimentation of WebGPU-based video >>>>>> processing. The optimizations require quite some complex work on the >>>>>> GPU >>>>>> stack and there are still gains to be expected so we'd like to let >>>>>> some >>>>>> developers test in the wild. >>>>>> >>>>>> A signal of note is that the group is already planning the transition >>>>>> to Candidate Recommendation for the WebGPU API and WGSL specifications. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ongoing technical constraints >>>>>> >>>>>> None >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> Warnings and errors are exposed via dev tools. Specialized tools for >>>>>> debugging are TBD. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? No >>>>>> >>>>>> This feature will not be available in Origin Trial on: - Android >>>>>> because adding Android support is a lot of engineering that we're >>>>>> scheduling to happen between the Origin Trial and the shipment of >>>>>> WebGPU. - >>>>>> Windows 7 and 8 since they don't have D3D12. Support will be extended to >>>>>> these versions of Windows after the first version of WebGPU is shipped. >>>>>> - >>>>>> Other devices that don't support D3D12/Metal/Vulkan or don't have a GPU >>>>>> with good enough minimum specifications.(maybe) The goal is that WebGPU >>>>>> will eventually be supported in hardware on the vast majority of systems >>>>>> on >>>>>> all Blink OSes and have software fallback on the others. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ? Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> DevTrial instructions >>>>>> https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/wiki/Implementation-Status#chromium-chrome-edge-etc >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name --enable-unsafe-webgpu >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>> >>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1156646 >>>>>> >>>>>> Launch bug >>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1156661 >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> OriginTrial desktop last 105 >>>>>> OriginTrial desktop first 94 >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/6213121689518080 >>>>>> >>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to prototype: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!msg/blink-dev/dxqWTSvyhDg/1UDaFD17AQAJ >>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/u/1/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/K4_egTNAvTs >>>>>> Intent to Extend: >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/l-QcZ7qOcUQ >>>>>> Intent to Extend (2): >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/GD0shbDnFuM/m/rh5Jxly2AgAJ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGdfWNP-8mrUnw0pbYZVv1bLbxj1-n%3Dy-UO9niDGCa1dYUGACw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGdfWNP-8mrUnw0pbYZVv1bLbxj1-n%3Dy-UO9niDGCa1dYUGACw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAMYvS2fXPFp9i2XjMRsnepyDHGXyNUyDZ%3DQHe0DnZ%2B-9a-25%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAMYvS2fXPFp9i2XjMRsnepyDHGXyNUyDZ%3DQHe0DnZ%2B-9a-25%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfXnSA2XwU7vY9-jYGostr27RvcmrPKH4GGqyS6Cd%2Bc74Q%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfXnSA2XwU7vY9-jYGostr27RvcmrPKH4GGqyS6Cd%2Bc74Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/92ff560d-2369-4ae8-f2ad-fff33599528b%40chromium.org >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/92ff560d-2369-4ae8-f2ad-fff33599528b%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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