On 4 May 2015, at 11:28, Jonathan Morton <[email protected]> wrote:

> Generally, the minimum observed delay will correspond to the case when both 
> inbound and outbound queues are empty throughout the path. This delay should 
> correspond to basic propagation and forwarding delays, which can't be reduced 
> further without altering some aspect of the network.
> 
> 

Yep, that corresponds to (∆Q|G + ∆Q|S(min packet size)) - note that the 
composition/de-composition only work on the individual bases - i.e need to deal 
with the delay in terms of ∆Q|G seperately.  We call the ∆Q|G and ∆Q|S the 
"structural delay" - as you point out needs change in some aspects of the 
network elements/their arrangement.

> Higher observed delays than this will tend to correspond to one or both of 
> the buffers at the bottleneck being persistently filled.
> 
the ∆Q|V (which can be established by measuring the delay and subtracting the 
(∆Q|G + ∆Q|S(packet size)) can measure this as an instantaneous value (not just 
at a persistent filing) - we've got measurements that show queues filling and 
emptying .


> To work out which one, you'll need to estimate the network load in each 
> direction. This is of course easiest if you can see all or most of the 
> traffic passing the bottleneck link, or if you yourself are participating in 
> that load, but it's probably possible in some other situations if you get 
> creative.
> 
> 

To estimate the contention for the common resource you need more than the load 
- you need the traffic pattern as well 
> To determine that bloat is NOT present, you need to observe delays that are 
> close to the baseline unloaded condition, while also being fairly sure that 
> the bottleneck link is saturated in the relevant direction.
> 
> 

Noting that, delay and loss is, of course, a natural consequence of having a 
shared medium and that (sorry for being a bit contentious) - bloat is a 
subjective not objective term as
> The most reliable indication of link saturation is to observe ECN marked 
> packets, which will only normally be produced by an AQM algorithm signalling 
> link congestion (where both endpoints of the flow have negotiated ECN 
> support). A slightly less reliable indication of saturation is to observe 
> lost packets, either via retransmission or ack patterns, especially if they 
> occur in bursts or at remarkably regular intervals.
> 
> - Jonathan Morton

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