On 4 May 2015, at 12:33, Jonathan Morton <[email protected]> wrote:

> 
>> On 4 May, 2015, at 13:42, Neil Davies <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Noting that, delay and loss is, of course, a natural consequence of having a 
>> shared medium
> 
> Not so.  Delay and loss are inherent to link oversubscription, not to 
> contention.  Without ECN, delay is traded off against loss by the size of the 
> buffer; a higher loss rate keeps the queue shorter and thus the induced delay 
> lower.

Sorry Jonathan - that’s not what we’ve observed. We’ve measured “excessive” 
delay on links that are averagely loaded << 0.1% (as measured over a 15 min 
period) - I can supply pointers to the graphs for that. 

> 
> You can have just as much delay and loss in a single flow on a dedicated, 
> point-to-point, full-duplex link (in other words, one that is *not* a shared 
> medium) as on the same link with multiple flows contending for it.

A single flow can contend the medium just as much as a multiple ones - it is 
the total arrival pattern that is important, which may be related to the number 
of flows (in that there is more freedom in the system).

> 
> Conversely, we can demonstrate almost zero flow-to-flow induced delay and 
> zero loss by adding AQM, FQ and ECN, even in a fairly heavy multi-flow, 
> multi-host scenario.
> 
> AQM with ECN solves the oversubscription problem (send rates will oscillate 
> around the true link rate instead of exceeding it), without causing packet 
> loss (because ECN can signal congestion instead), and FQ further reduces the 
> most easily perceived delay (ie. flow-to-flow induced) as well as improving 
> fairness.
> 
> Of course, loss can also be caused by poor link quality, but that’s an 
> entirely separate problem.

It is a separate cause, agreed, but it has a similar effect...

> 
> - Jonathan Morton
> 

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