----- Original Message ----- From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 9:43 AM Subject: Re: Question for everyone
> At 21:21 24-10-2002 -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote: > > > > The eventual accomplishment would be John Giorgis cleaning up his act > > > and starting to behave like a civilised adult. > > > >Whatever it was that John did (long forgotten by almost everyone by now) > > That would mean that I am one of very few people on this list who have a > *functioning* short-term memory... > No...........It means that most people on this list forgive small human errors, errors of judgement, and general silliness, while they take notice of intentional attempts to disrupt the list and/or force people to have a particular opinion. > > >it certainly didnt call for the endless fits spits and pity parties the > >list is subjected to.......by you. > > Well, if Giorgis would actually behave like a decent, civilised person, > there would be no reason for me to criticise his behaviour. But > unfortunately... Johns behavior is the business of the list at large to some degree, but not your business in particular. *You* cannot control Johns behavior in any substantial way, but you do have total control of *your* behavior. Maybe you havent noticed but you are talking about John and everyone else is talking about you. Conversations like this do not work well. > > And you have not even seen all of it; you should read the bullshit I have > received off-list from him over the years. Believe me, arrogant stuff like > "What part of stripping "Brin" from subject headers didn't you understand?" > is pretty much the least aggressive of his off-list posts. (That line was > the subject header of an otherwise empty post, received a few days ago > after I had forgotten to remove the word "Brin" from the subject header of > one of my posts). Do you really think anyone cares about your and Johns offlist jousting? Your bloated sense of self importance is reaching comical proportions. Geez Jeroen, get a grip! > > > >Your childish and churlish behavior is far worse than anything you have > >accused John of. > > So, criticising someone for is misbehaviour is worse than the misbehaviour > itself? Not at all. But the incessant ranting about it is worse. Early on you might have had some justification, but now it looks like a bad habit or an addiction. It appears you want to modify his behavior into leaving the list. > > > >After about 2 years of this you should have some clue as to how unreasonable > >your bitching is and how completely unrealistic your expectations are. > > I think my "bitching" (more correctly: my criticism) is quite reasonable. > But as for my expectations, you are right: it is completely unrealistic to > expect that Giorgis will ever improve his attitude, get down from his high > horse and start behaving like an intelligent, mature and civilised person. > Let me repeat this: You can only control your own behavior, and it is the only behavior you are responsible for. Let the listowners handle misbehaviors. Its not your responsiblity and pre-empting the listowners prerogatives will eventually cause you more trouble than its worth. > > >I am interested in hearing diverse opinions, even those that I find > >antagonistic to my worldview, so I can appreciate what you bring to > >political discussions. But when you go off on John with such zeal, with > >unasked for frequency, > > The frequence of my criticism happens to equal the frequency with which > Giorgis shows his usual questionable behaviour. So, essentially, if you > want things to improve you will have to get him to shape up. > That sounds distinctly like a threat! If indeed that is a threat, I *will* be the first to call for your removal from the list. I like you Jeroen, but there is a limit to tolerance. You bring shame upon this list. > > >and unfortunate poor judgement, > > What poor judgement? Have I been having the wrong impressions about > Giorgis? I think so. It seems to me that you take these things far too personally. I think that both you and John have good intentions, but you in particular seem to have revenge in mind for past events and cant seem to let it go. Let - It - Go! > He regularly shows arrogance, refuses to answer questions, refuses > to back his claims, tends to launch personal attacks, etcetera. Should I > have considered all that to be *acceptable*, perhaps even *desirable* > behaviour, rather than considering it unwanted behaviour? Do you think *I* always agree with John? How is it that I find myself able to be tolerant to both of you? How about the rest of the list? > > > Jeroen "How long till Hell freezes over?" van Baardwijk > xponent That Was Long Ago Maru rob _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
