At 18:36 26-10-2002 -0500, Robert Seeberger wrote:
If that is true, then I might just as well restore the previous content of the Main Page of Brin-L.com, as it appearently is quite accurate -- you know, the version that says that things like flame wars and personal attacks are completely accepted and tolerated behaviour here.> Excuse me? Giorgis has, among other things, repeatedly refused to > answer questions, has repeatedly refused to back his claims, and has > repeatedly turned to personal attacks to try and silence people who > disagree with him. In my book, such behaviour does not qualify as > merely "small human errors, errors in judgement, and general > silliness". To me, it definitely qualifies as disruptive behaviour.No one seems to care but you.
But you really would not want that, now would you?
OK, then I am apparently the only one here who thinks that intolerance and personal attacks should NOT be acceptable behaviour. Hold on a second while I update Brin-L.com...> >Let the listowners handle misbehaviors. > > I would love to, but unfortunately the various listowners this list has > had (except me) do not seem to recognise Giorgis's behaviour as being > disruptive misbehaviour. And that should tell you something. That Johns behavior is not as bad as you seem to think.
But hey, I am confident that someday you will come to agree with me -- because one day, sooner or later (could be tomorrow, could be next month, could be next year), *you* will say something that Giorgis does not like to hear and then *you* will become the next victim of his intolerance and his personal attacks.
In a way, he is. My responses are triggered by *his* misbehaviour; if he does not misbehave, I do not criticise his behaviour.> > > The frequence of my criticism happens to equal the frequency with > > > which Giorgis shows his usual questionable behaviour. So, > > > essentially, if you want things to improve you will have to get him > > > to shape up. > > > >That sounds distinctly like a threat! > > What is threatening about that? I do not see anything in my statement > that could be considered a threat. Really, all I am saying is that > Giorgis is the cause of all this list disruption, and therefore you > will have to convince him to improve his behaviour in such a way that > such disruption will not reoccur. John is in no way responsible for your actions.
Oh, now I get it! How stupid of me to forget -- as an American, you are of course using the *American* definition of "threat"! (Which, as we all know, includes a hell of a lot more than the European definition.)If you claim that you will continue your tirade until John does what you want, you are holding the list hostage. And for that I would ask for your expulsion from the list. Not the outcome I would prefer.
Note that I used the word "reoccur", which indicates that it could happen again. If I had meant "I will continue my criticism", I would have used the word "continue" instead of the word "reoccur".
If you do not want all this to happen again in the future, then you will have to convince the person causing it in the first place (Giorgis) to start behaving in such a way that "all this" will not happen again.
Excuse me? *I* am trying to improve this list by trying to get a major disturbing factor (Giorgis) to clean up his act, and then you call *me* irresponsible? I think that "irresponsible" better describes those who think there is nothing wrong with Giorgis wreaking havoc on this list over and over again, merely because he cannot accept that people do not share his narrow-minded, black-and-white worldview.> >You bring shame upon this list. > > You know, I have been thinking the exact same thing about a certain > other member of this list -- his initials are JDG. That you consistantly blame someone else for your behavior is a sign of irresponsibility.
That is what I start out with: treating people the way I want them to treat me. However, with some people such an attitude is just not going to work; to get through to people like Giorgis, you need to lower yourself to his level.You can (in your own mind) discount the opinions of others, and everything is quite alright as long as you treat those same people with respect. You are not required to like anyone, just treat them decently.
Jeroen "Who needs him anyway" van Baardwijk
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