> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Gautam Mukunda
... > I would go so far as to say that the people of France > could hardly have fought less hard. But the Vichy > government, as I've pointed out several times, and as > you've never even attempted to rebut, But I have. I pointed out that it only came into existence as a result of the defeat of France's army and the nation's surrender. I have pointed out that it was a puppet of the Nazis. Do you disagree? > despite all of your gratuitous insults If I have insulted you, it was not intentional. Do you consider any correction of your statements to carry an implicit insult? > - you have not > even attempted to rebut their central context, which > is that everyone in France, from Vichy to the average > Jean Winebottle in Paris, had a choice to act > differently, and they almost all failed. I strongly disagree and can't quite see why you wouldn't regard what I've written as an explicit rebuttal. Many in France helped to hide Jews and get them out of the country. I have even profiled one well-known such person. He could not remember anything that happened to him before he was about 11 years old; his first memory was being moved from house to house in France, ahead of the Nazis. His name then was Wolfgang Grajonca; the world knew him better as Bill Graham, concert promoter and one-time manager of the Rolling Stones (who "cannot be managed," in Graham's words). In the rush to get him and other Jewish children away from the Nazis, he was separated from his sister and did not find her again for decades, quite a story of loss and reunion. > Italy was an > Axis country - it did not participate in the same way. > Bulgaria was an allied Axis power - it succeeded in > saving almost all of its Jews. I thought Bulgaria was the only other nation under occupation to have a puppet government openly collaborate in the manner of the Vichys. Is that not correct? > more than enough sin to go around. You seem reluctant > to judge everyone but the American government (and > conservatives in general, I guess - I'm not going to > forget the fascist slander, implied though it might > have been) but this is a situation that cries out for > judgment. What is this fascist slander you bring up? If I've said you are a fascist, it was far, far from intentional. At most, I think you carelessly lump large groups of people together in the worst possible light, as though the Vichys represent all French people, the peacenik extremists represent all those opposed to war, etc. If you see that as a step toward fascism, that's your interpretation, not mine. I wouldn't go there; it is a less-than=worthless slippery slope argument. I'm not the least bit reluctant to criticize the Nazis or their pals in the puppet government that Petain, etc., created after the nation surrendered. But I'm not going to equate them with the lawfully elected government of France before or after the Nazis, which you still seem willing to do. I'm not reluctant to criticize the Iraqi government, either. In fact, there's hardly anyone I'm hesitant to criticize, which is probably more of a character flaw than a strength, on balance. If there's anything I really want to criticize, it's the "if you're not for us, then you're against us" attitude that seems to pervade discussion (if it can be called that) of this war. I'm not talking about here on the list so much as on the international stage. It lumps together and marginalizes anyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon. Nick _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
