--- Gautam Mukunda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- Davd Brin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Absurd. Email exchanges are polemical, not > > deliberative. Moreover, criticism of failed > > policies > > demand lower burdens of proof than > recommendations. > > Well, Dr. Brin, they're polemical if you want them > to > be. I think this is the messenger, not the medium, > though. I certainly consider my discussions with > Dan > M. or JDG to be deliberative. Maybe if you talked > to > me, not at me, it might _be_ deliberative.
Look, you guys drew ME into this. I see my country in the hands of monsters. I see Barry Goldwater's GOP in the hands of monsters. I am going to say so. > > When I recommended considering an Iranian > alliance, > > I > > NEVER predicted with certainty that it would > happen. > > Well, you'd better be pretty certain before you say > that people who decided not to do it are morons > and/or > corrupt. Maybe they thought (as I think) that it's > a > really bad idea. I never called them morons for that. Find where I did. I think it is MORONIC not to at least consider an idea that has no downside and a potentially huge up side. An idea that starts with the advantage of being Saddam's inarguably worst nightmare. But that adjective applies to the decision. I know some smart people who refused to look at the Iranian gambit. The beauty of an open system is that smart people can cover each others' brief moronic gaps. But these guys do not want an open system. Dig it. W has held fewer news conferences than any other president by a factor of three. He has tried to pre-vet the press's qwuestions at the few he held. He pointedly picks partisans to ask the few questions that do get answered. He openly avows to never reading newspapers. He is the only president in a century who never wrote or co-wrote a book or even an article. His appointments calendar almost never includes representatives of points of view other than his own. These are public facts... HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY FEEL ANY PRIDE IN THAT? Especially since he was the first president in more than a century elected without a plurality and with a verifiable majority opposing his worldview. Had he entered office with humility and an open door, it would have been one thing. > > I> can,> > for example, lay out multiple > > equally-convincing> and > > > > explanations for the First World War, only the > > > most> > important event of the 20th century. > If, > > _even in> > retrospect_ it is impossible to > > determine > > > something> > as> > basic as "why did the > countries > > of Europe fight> this> > massive conflict" > > > > > > Except that momentum + stupidity made it > inevitable? > > Try submitting that to International Security, Dr. > Brin. I'd be interested to see what Sean Lynn-Jones > writes in his response. He's a polite guy. > > > > 1. What if the government didn't _want_ to > give > > up > > > > power and used its secret police to preserve > its > > > > position - what then? > > > > Um... I dunno.... ask the Shah. He did that > > SOOOOOOO > > effectively against the same people. > > The Shah was considerably less ruthless than the > people who succeeded him. He exiled Khomeini > instead > of killing him. Khomeini (and his successors) > aren't > that restrained. > > An obvious parallel would be Eastern Europe. > Eastern > Europe became filled with democracies under > Gorbachev, > a person unwilling to use force (much - ask a > Lithuanian about how restrained Gorbachev was some > time) to maintain his power. Does this suggest to > you > that Stalin would have acted the same way? > > > > > 2. If it were so easy to overthrow the Iranian > > > > government, why hasn't the (popular) > opposition > > > done> > it already? > > > > You put words in my mouth. I never said it was > > easy. > > I said we would HELP the democrats by STOPPING > > providing the Mullahs with a reflexive bogeyman. > > Except we don't seem to have done that. As I have > said, and you have agreed, we are quite popular in > Iran among the average people. Not much of a > bogeyman, then. > > Now, I'm not old enough to personally remember > Reagan's Evil Empire speech. But I've read enough > about the response to it - a response that sounds an > awful lot like yours, from people who called him a > moron for saying it. But, you know, I _am_ old > enough > to remember what Soviet dissidents have been saying > about that speech - how happy it made them. How > they > passed the text of Reagan's speeches around while > they > were imprisoned in Siberia. Did so while the same > people (quite often the _very_ same people) attacked > Reagan for having the guts to stand up to the > Soviets. > It didn't drive the Russians into the arms of the > Communists. Very much the opposite, actually. > > > > > > > 3. Why do you think that an apology by the US > is > > > the > > > > most important thing in the world for > Iranians? > > > > > > Ummmmmm.... because it is the one and ONLY thing > > they > > have demanded from us, both officially and > > unofficially for 25 years? > > Well, they've also demanded that we stop supporting > Israel and remove ourselves from the Middle East. > Oh > yes, they've also threatened Israel with nuclear > destruction. It's not a demand on us, but it's > something I like to keep in mind when I think about > who we're dealing with in Iran. > > > ===== > Gautam Mukunda > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Freedom is not free" > http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l > _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
