Adam et al, Milky raises a valid point, and one that I seem to remember airing with Chris late on Saturday night (at least I hope it was him). He may have been elected to change the Tour, but that doesn’t mean he should make changes without consulting the teams it affects. We have every confidence in Chris coming up with a workable plan, but there's no reason he shouldn't bounce those ideas off those directly affected, include good suggestions in the plan or modify it when consensus dictates it should be modified - so that we end up with a better plan in the end.
For example we discussed the possibility of widening the Top 8 and Chris (playing devil's advocate) was suggesting if it were a Top 16 maybe all those top 16 should be involved in the initial pools. While the competition outside the Top 8 (as well as within it) has definitely improved, IMHO there is still enough of a gulf between 1 and 8 (I think C2 were the only team to reach double figures against us this weekend..) that for the top few teams to be playing seeds 9-16 would be fairly pointless. As it stands the Tours are fantastic breeding grounds for competitive games - there doesn't seem to be any reason to return to the old days of wasted Saturdays. Do we want to undo all that we've achieved with the Top8 format? We'd be mad...especially with EUCC just round the corner in 2005. We should be concentrating on giving those teams going to EUCC the best chance we can, not making them play Hammerage and RedDog weekend after weekend (names chosen explicitly because I have friends on both teams and hope they won't take offence). So - maybe there should be a yahoogroup for those interested, or people could just mail Chris and be put on a cc list. Either way surely there should be some involvement from other people more official and representative than 'chat to him over a beer'? That doesn't give anyone a chance to comment on suggestions and have those comments commented on etc etc as you move towards a solution everyone's happy with. Instead so I take it we're supposed to wait until Chris decides whether to make it a Britdisc issue? Or wait until February next year when it's all too late to comment anyway? More controversially - maybe we should limit the Top Division in 2004 to the Geo teams only? With EUCC in 2005 round the corner only geo teams will likely be allowed to enter (http://eucc.frisbee.cz/go/en/in/tinfo/?d=&cil=eligibility ): 1. Definition of a club team: "A team comprised of players, who have not for the last three months prior to the European Ultimate Club Championship tournament played, competed and entered into competitive tournaments with any other team and who reside in the same geographic locality." Having non-geo teams in the 2004 Top Division would therefore only: a) muddy the water vis-à-vis Tour points (the likely way the 2005 EUCC entrants will be chosen) as they fail to turn out with consistent teams, and b) reduce the amount of valuable games the geo teams training for 2005 will get. Anyway, summer league calls me... Roger CU #1 PS If anyone underestimates the degree to which non-geo teams are messing up other teams' tours then imagine you're a Druid (pick your coffee mug back up...) - you've got to your first semi of the season and are delighted - only to realize that at Tour 4 you're in a pool with Clapham 1, oh and Bristol, oh and, wait a minute, Chevvy South. If Chevvy South bring a full un-winjured squad and can be bothered to play Druids after they've lost to Clapham 1 - Druids semifinal place must look shaky against a team which has finished 1st and 3rd with a full complement (and crucially without the Druids getting to play a 5th or 6th place team to get there). Are we prepared to let this kind of unpredictable yo-yoing dictate who gets to EUCC 2005? It won't affect my team - I'm saying this out of the altruistic desire to see Sharks pip Druids for the last EUCC spot by one point - but a fair point at least, not a point earned because some telephone team couldn't be bothered to play them in the last game! PPS - Alex Campbell: > I do recognise this a fault Don’t beat yourself up too much Alex. In every other respect the tournament was brilliant. The fields were superb and little things like the bins by most fields really helped make it feel like one of the best-run tournies I've been to - getting to be on a par with Rimini or a Worlds event in terms of presentability to the press. Congratulations. If only I could get our lot to wear the matching red shorts....;-) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Batchelor Sent: 10 July 2003 17:19 To: James Hammersley; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [BD] TOUR 2004 All Well Chris did get elected with a remit to change the Tour, but as ever with sensible people (yes I am talking about Chris Hughes) he will, as I know he has already started to do, solicit opinion from relevant sources and maybe even ask the question on Britdisc if he is feeling particularly crazy and when finalised he will no doubt put them forward to the board for what should be a rubber stamping affair. If you think you do have relevant input I would suggest you contact him, or maybe even have a chat with him at the next Tour over a beer to put forward your ideas. I think that it is now obvious to all that the Tour needs to be split... Cheers Adam Batchelor Retired illiterate megalomaniac! (Ok Timmy!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Hammersley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 4:59 PM Subject: [BD] TOUR 2004 > All - > > Stig raised a point yesterday about stucture of the tour going forward - > > How is the change of the tour going to be managed? Does Chris Hughes as DOC > have complete say and freedom, or is there a 'committe' to deliver a new UK > tour? > > James > > _________________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! > http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://pootle.near.me.uk/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp > -------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this e-mail are confidential to the ordinary user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed, or in the case of an incorrectly addressed e-mail message, the intended recipient. No-one else may copy, use, disseminate or forward all or any part of it in any form. 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