As much as i appreciate the extreme need to promote Junior Ultimate, i'm gonna chip in on this email and add my bit to the debate about "Beginners"/"Freshers" and Juniors in Ultimate generally. Speaking as the TD for this years Sheffield Beginners, and also an ex-GB Junior and also a Junior team-coach, i have this to say:
yes, the need for Junior involvement at tournements is a much needed aspect in the UK, and one which is largely missing - thanks for trying to rectify this by organising events must go here to Tom Bolstridge in Stourbridge, and also to Adam Crouch who has had the foresight to start arranging Junior Indoor Nationals for next year already... But, regarding "Beginners" tournements, these are NOT designed for Juniors who have played before. Rather than trying to include Juniors in absolutely everything, the whole point of Beginners tournements is that they are held purely to introduce new people who have never, or hardly ever played the sport before, to this beautiful game. By putting a limit on playing-experience for events such as these, yes it does exclude experienced Juniors and also those who have been playing slightly longer. But as at the moment most of the new uptake of players to Ultimate is through Uni, surely it would be unfair to disadavantage these new players just to accomodate Juniors? They need just as much support and nurturing as Juniors do, and having more experienced Juniors playing would, in my view, be detrimental to evreryones development... (In fact it would probably be more off-putting for the inexperienced older players if they were being ass-whupped by people years younger than themselves) ... They deserve there own space to learn just as Juniors do. Sheffield Beginners is a Beginners tournemnt, designed to hook people who have never played the sport until recently. A tournement of this nature is there to prove to them that they can play and should keep playing Ultimate properly, rather than just as a mess around sport. Juniors are welcome at Sheffield Beginners, providing they are not experienced (ie. by meeting the three-month criteria). Last years Sheffield Beginners was won by Hippies on the Hill, and also included a team coached by Rosh, both of which were Junior teams who aquitted themselves extremely well. But the point remains - they were BEGINNER Junior teams. Yes, definately agreed, Juniors need tournements and pitch time, but surely they deserve to have their own tournements - any takers to organise any? If they had their own supply of high quality tournements, more experienced Juniors would have no need to high-jack Beginners tournements. If we want to include Juniors in less high standard events to boosts their devlopment (rather than throwing them in at the deep end at Tour on Open teams) and also to expand their playing experienced out-side the limited purely-junior circuit, the why not encourage more "Development" tournements like the excellent one held at Loughborough two years ago?? Yes, Juniors need alot of promotion and encouragement, but so do other new players - dont forget about them! With regards to a more specific portion of Alex's email: > This might also increase the team > standard of such tournaments, > causing true beginners to see what levels can be > achieved in the sport, > while still allowing room for these people to play > in what are generally fun > events. ...The point of a Beginners Tournment, as i see it, is not to feel the need to provide a highly competetive, higher skilled higher standard tournement. The pint of a begginners tournement is to provide a situation where new players feel comfortable and confident enough to play to their full abilities in a setting which they will not feel intimidated by. Including more skilled Juniors could well have a detrimental effect by unbalancing the tournement, and actually making it more off-putting for new players. If we want Beginners to see what standards can be achieved in Ultimate at tournements like these, i say dont include more experienced Juniors in the event(Juniors fine, just not experienced ones!), but instead take a leaf out of Shef Beginners - we run a mini-experienced tournement side by side with the mian event, expressly for the purpose of showcasing some higher standard Ultimate without pressuring inexperienced players into participating at a standard they would probably be unable to cope with anyway. My basic point - "Beginners" are beginners. Not experienced players. "Beginners" can be, but are definately not specifically, Juniors. "Beginners" are also niether specifically Freshers (so why have a "freshers" tournement??) On a different subject, but not deviating from the Junior debate, i wanted to chip in on this following the email by Dale Walker from Mowers: Quoting Dale: "A problem with trying to introduce a new sport to people my age is the scepticism. Most people around my age are indoctrinated with ideas that the sports to go for are Football, Rugby, Cricket, true British sports! They stereotypically see a frisbee and thing "Beach" or something vague like that. It's all well and good talking about introducing it to people at an earlier age, but it's increasingly difficult because people just don't take it seriously. For the past year I've been trying to convince some people in my school that they should make their own team, because they are enthusiastic and they aren't bad. Yet they take it too lightly, and just dismiss the suggestion." This is a common problem, one which i too have found - as an ex-Junior and tying-to-be avid promoter of Junior Ultimate, this apathy of dismisal of Ultimate by younger potential-players is common. I currently coach two Junior teams in the Shrewsbury area, one of college age and one of secondary shcool age. I've also approached Scout and Guide groups in the area, with a view to coaching them as well, and also helped Cath Moore run the Ultimate sessions at the recent Scout and Guide weekend Sports event in Rugby. I even managed, in between being at uni and all my other commitments, to find time to coach and encourage the Juniors in my home area - the college team, assuming the name of the Shrewsbury Open team (the Magnificent Severn) even competed in Junior Indoor Nationals last year and did fairly well. But since then, interest has dropped off simply because i have been at uni most of the time and thus unable to properly coach them. Several have been coming to the Open practices i've been running over the vacation period, but many have not bothered. As for the secondary school team, i took over when the teacher who was coaching them left the school, but was hampered both by the time and travel constraints of uni and by the unwillingness of the school to make any space available for trainings - again sveral now come to Open, but many don't... Scout and Guide groups will probably be willing to include Ultimate into their programmes, but depending how active the unit is, they will probably only be able to schedule one or two sessions a term or else at the other end of the scale simply not get the interest from the members. Basically, Ultimate needs to be better publicised, and also better/more increasingly coached at Junior level by better players if the teen-apathy is to be overcome. Which reuqires much more commitment form those of us who already play - a chore, i know, believe me, but a necessary one. Hance the Junior liaisons on Open teams would be fantastic. If we do not try to beat the outlook by most people as Ultimate as an non-serious "beach" or break-time sport and offer more support, Junior Ultimate is facing a bit of a crisis... Sorry for the long ramble/rant, im very tired, and perhaps i'm just unloading some of the stess of organising Shef Beginners which has been piling up, cheers for reading it all, if u got this far, and i hope you find it understandable and appropriate, Tom Howard (my views, not any of the clubs or organisation o represent here, below...) Phat Eds, Club-Captain Shef Beginners TD Magnificent Severn, Club/1st Team Capt, Junior Liaison Northern Uni Coordinator Ex-GB Junior Ex-Scout, present Network Scout. --- Alexander Minshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just an idea, but couldn't 'beginners' tournaments, > which are primarily > aimed at University freshers, become renamed as, for > instance, a 'freshers' > tounaments, and lift restrictions on length of time > people have played the > game. > > Limiting (or at least appearing to limit) these > touraments to people who > have only been playing Ultimate for a short time may > alienate players who > have been playing Ultimate during 'junior' years. > > Renaming these tournaments as 'freshers' or similar, > may encourage players > who have adopted the game earlier (perhaps from > Smudge's St. Vincent Academy > - wahey!). This might also increase the team > standard of such tournaments, > causing true beginners to see what levels can be > achieved in the sport, > while still allowing room for these people to play > in what are generally fun > events. > > I suppose renaming to 'freshers' may then discourage > non-uni junior teams, > but most such teams will read BD and as long as the > TD's (subject to TD's > own agreement) announce that non-uni teams which > meet an age criteria can > enter, renaming to 'freshers' shouldn't have too > much of a negative effect. > > Alex > The Prince Of Leisure > EMO #34 > > ___ I thought I'd add something, being a Junior myself (I play for Mowers - Birkenhead based team). A problem with trying to introduce a new sport to people my age is the scepticism. Most people around my age are indoctrinated with ideas that the sports to go for are Football, Rugby, Cricket, true British sports! They stereotypically see a frisbee and thing "Beach" or something vague like that. It's all well and good talking about introducing it to people at an earlier age, but it's increasingly difficult because people just don't take it seriously. For the past year I've been trying to convince some people in my school that they should make their own team, because they are enthusiastic and they aren't bad. Yet they take it too lightly, and just dismiss the suggestion. People see Ultimate as a mess around sport, which obviously Ultimate players realise that it is infact a great sport with a good social side, and doesn't have the competitive nature of Football to the degree that it will always have 'Spirit'. Another problem is when young people see a team, they will probably think a few things - kit is one of them, for example. We are currently in the process of ordering our own kit, and the effort that has gone into it has been rather high, which some people our age couldn't take because they need to be catered for. Football heirarchies will arrange everything for their players, and the players will have little say into club developments. Ultimate is different in that generally players in a team are friends, so it is run in direct democratic fashion, instead of representative, which some younger people cannot handle, or be bothered with. I want to see Ultimate develop at a youth stage as much as anyone else, but I though I'd highlight two areas that I believe are hindering this process, from my own experience. Dale Walker Mowers #10 ______________________________________________________________ > Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN > Messenger > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://zion.ranulf.net/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - > http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp > ____________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? 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