Good question ... There are a few key / different scenarios here:
1. Your marker has positioned his body in such away as to try to stop you from initiating your cut in a specific direction ... you run into him = foul on him (indirect foul 17.9). You avoid him = no foul on anyone 2. Your marker has positioned his body in such away as to try to stop you from initiating your cut in a specific direction ... you both start moving in the same direction ... you run into each other = incidental contact no foul (or offset foul as you both call it 17.10), you avoid him = no foul 3. (what I think you were describing) Your marker has positioned his body in such away as to try to stop you from initiating your cut in a specific direction ... you initiate your cut and are already in the middle of it when he steps in to try to block your path. You avoid him = possible argument for dangerous play foul as he was trying to initiate contact and you only just avoided it but as you say no contact = no foul. You collide with him = foul on you as he has initiated contact (blocking foul 17.8). There we go that's how I would interpret it, all that said I have recently started to try to use my body to block a cut in scenarios 1 & 2. I have experienced scenario 1 and called a foul on a player who has run through me (50% of the time called by the player who committed it). Scenario 2 is just what I would describe as physical defense and no issues so far. Scenario 3 I avoid at all costs as it's definitely a foul and pretty dangerous to boot. Although this is a question about the start of a cut I believe that the same things apply for boxing at the end of a cut. Scenario1 = foul on defence or no foul, Scenario 2 = potential for both players to call foul, Scenario 3 = foul on offence, dangerous play. My 200 cents ... Luke T On 18 May 2011 16:11, Mark Tobin <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Britdisc, > > I usually try to keep my head down with these type of dicussion but as this > current discussion is relevant to something that happens to me on the pitch > recently I thought i would ask the question. > > I was making a open side cut, when my marker (who was slight breakside of > me) > deliberately side stepped quickly so that we was standing in my path. Now I > JUST > managed to avoid contact but had to leap over his leg in order to do so. > > > Now my initial reaction was that this should be a foul because he was > trying to > initial contact and he clearly wasn't making any play for the disc (in > actual > fact he had his back to the disc and was watching me). However as I > understand > the rules, as no contact took place, there was no foul, is that correct? > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Paul Waite <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Sent: Wed, 18 May, 2011 15:40:42 > Subject: Re: [BD] Physicality in ultimate > > I guess people really need to go read the rules. > > Standing your ground is different to stopping dead, as is slowing up in > front of > a player. The rule is set to avoid contact from both O and D. in most cases > the > O player has just as much chance to avoid the contact with the D player as > the D > has with the O, unfortunately most fouls tend to be called because O > believes > that they have a right to the disc. > > > Andrew there seems to be a contradiction in your assessment below whereby a > stationary person can be at fault in one instance and not in the other. The > point you should have said is that contact should not be instigated by > either intending to create contact by their movements or by trying to go > through > people to get the disc (stationary or otherwise). > > BD conversations are great. But confusion from these clarifications tends > to > find its way on to the pitch. I really don't want to be called up on a foul > by > getting my positioning on a disc and holding my ground. > > Go read the rules people. As andrew has said they are clear. > > V > > From: Andrew Mosedale <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011, 15:01 > Subject: Re: [BD] Physicality in ultimate > > "why is all blame being on the person moving into the person 'standing > their ground'?" > > Because that's the rules. If you stop dead in such a way that makes it > impossible for another player to avoid you then sure, you're at fault for > causing the contact. But far more often people don't really try to avoid > contact, and what's more concerning don't seem to think they have any > responsibility to. There's no justification in the rules under 'inviting > contact'. There's not meant to be any blame at all, but the game only > works if people know the rules. > > It's very clear (and I believe there are clarifiation scenarios on wfdf to > help too). Even if it's after you've caught the disc, if you then make > contact with someone who wasn't moving then it's a foul. If you have to > give up on the disc to avoid the collision then you give up on the disc - > unless you could have avoided them and were just lazy (and risking > injury). It's the same kind of judgement call we have to make all the > time, and people do make misjudgements which is fine. But others > (particularly the more physically robust) seem to have a habit of > overestimating their ability to avoid a collision on a regular basis. And > as I said before, some aren't even aware what the rules expect of them. > And unfortunately having a discussion on britdisc is likely to still be > insufficient, but it's a discussion worth having. > > > > > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > __________________________________________________ > BritDisc mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
