Thanks to all for very helpful responses. I have some great leads now
that I'm looking into.
Neil, here's a phase noise spec for an HP/Keysight 8648. It's good
enough to measure phase noise in moderate quality clocks, but a better
setup can measure down to around -170 dBc/Hz at 100 kHz offset from the
carrier.
Best,
Karl
On 8/21/2024 2:02 AM, salmon.na via casper@lists.berkeley.edu wrote:
Hi Karl,
It’s perhaps a naïve question, but how far can you get in measuring
phase noise using a good spectrum analyser?
I’ve an old HP dial up oscillator up to 40 GHz tube source that has
phase noise -107 dBc/Hz 100 kHz from the carrier.
Cheers, Neil
*From:*casper@lists.berkeley.edu <casper@lists.berkeley.edu> *On
Behalf Of *Daniel Blakley
*Sent:* 21 August 2024 05:57
*To:* casper@lists.berkeley.edu
*Subject:* Re: [casper] Low cost phase noise analysis
Dear Karl,
I definitely don't have a simple quick answer to your question, so
this is a good place to ask others who may.
I find and found Phase Noise analysis and its measurement to be
very interesting. As you know, fundamentally, phase noise and Alan
Deviation are very closely related, as is the measurement of clock
jitter. It is significant to note that NIST (Boulder CO) historically
has made significant contributions to Phase Noise Analysis, beginning
long ago with the work of David Alan (to which Alan Deviation owes its
namesake). More recently (several years ago) again in significant
work in phase noise measurement, NIST introduced a new, more accurate,
phase noise measurement architecture and method. Out of this work,
came to pass several instruments which largely emulated or followed
this new architecture that is evident in some of the Keysight
phase noise offerings as well as other instruments from manufacturers
such as Holzworth, Rhode & Schwartz, et al.
-Daniel Blakley
On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Karl Warnick <warn...@ee.byu.edu> wrote:
Hi all,
I've spent some time this summer as part of a radar project
digging into
calculating phase noise for highly stable tones. I have
implemented what
I think is a decent algorithm. My next steps are to look for test
data
sets and tips for the hardware.
Do you have a file of samples of a stable tone? If anyone has a test
data set consisting of samples of a pure tone that they would like to
share as a test data set, I'd like to apply my codes to that and
check
the phase noise. Both the tone generator and the ADC sample clock
should
be phase stable to the order of a Keysight signal generator, or
ideally
better. The data set length should be a reasonable fraction of a
second
for ~1 Hz phase noise resolution. The frequency of the tone and the
sample rate are fairly arbitrary as I'm mainly looking to
benchmark the
algorithm.
How cheaply can stable samples be acquired? I'm looking for low cost
hardware (a few $100s up to a few $k) that is stable enough to
measure
phase noise comparable to a Keysight source or better. Phase noise
can
be measured with an expensive phase noise analyzer, but I believe it
should be possible to do this with a low cost digitizer with a
suitably
stable sample clock. The sample clock could (or perhaps must) be
external. The sample rate should be around 80-100 Msps or higher
and the
platform should be able to store a burst of samples of length on the
order of 1 sec. We have done this using a ZCU 216 and it seems to
work,
but that isn't really a low cost board. I've looked into Picoscope
products, which might be ideal, but their support people don't know
anything about the phase noise properties of their samplers.
Thanks in advance to anyone whose interest is piqued enough to
respond.
Best,
Karl
--
Karl F. Warnick
Parkinson Engineering Research Professor
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Brigham Young University
450 Engineering Building
Provo, UT 84602
(801) 422-1732
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Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Brigham Young University
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