Hi Firstly, be careful of the phase noise definition: https://scholar.google.co.za/citations?view_op=view_citation&hl=en&user=B69pWoYAAAAJ&cstart=20&pagesize=80&citation_for_view=B69pWoYAAAAJ:8AbLer7MMksC
https://open.uct.ac.za/items/0fdd8b4f-ec5d-4ab8-8120-443b30894c8c Useful phase noise / jitter measurement methods https://open.uct.ac.za/items/2ade182a-f162-41ba-a1d0-43033bcadc2a Distribution of timing http://leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm Regards On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 at 10:02, salmon.na via casper@lists.berkeley.edu < casper@lists.berkeley.edu> wrote: > Hi Karl, > > > > It’s perhaps a naïve question, but how far can you get in measuring phase > noise using a good spectrum analyser? > > > > I’ve an old HP dial up oscillator up to 40 GHz tube source that has phase > noise -107 dBc/Hz 100 kHz from the carrier. > > > > Cheers, Neil > > > > *From:* casper@lists.berkeley.edu <casper@lists.berkeley.edu> *On Behalf > Of *Daniel Blakley > *Sent:* 21 August 2024 05:57 > *To:* casper@lists.berkeley.edu > *Subject:* Re: [casper] Low cost phase noise analysis > > > > Dear Karl, > > > > I definitely don't have a simple quick answer to your question, so this > is a good place to ask others who may. > > > > I find and found Phase Noise analysis and its measurement to be very > interesting. As you know, fundamentally, phase noise and Alan Deviation > are very closely related, as is the measurement of clock jitter. It is > significant to note that NIST (Boulder CO) historically has made > significant contributions to Phase Noise Analysis, beginning long ago with > the work of David Alan (to which Alan Deviation owes its namesake). More > recently (several years ago) again in significant work in phase noise > measurement, NIST introduced a new, more accurate, phase noise measurement > architecture and method. Out of this work, came to pass several > instruments which largely emulated or followed this new architecture that > is evident in some of the Keysight phase noise offerings as well as other > instruments from manufacturers such as Holzworth, Rhode & Schwartz, et al. > > > > -Daniel Blakley > > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Karl Warnick <warn...@ee.byu.edu> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've spent some time this summer as part of a radar project digging into > calculating phase noise for highly stable tones. I have implemented what > I think is a decent algorithm. My next steps are to look for test data > sets and tips for the hardware. > > Do you have a file of samples of a stable tone? If anyone has a test > data set consisting of samples of a pure tone that they would like to > share as a test data set, I'd like to apply my codes to that and check > the phase noise. Both the tone generator and the ADC sample clock should > be phase stable to the order of a Keysight signal generator, or ideally > better. The data set length should be a reasonable fraction of a second > for ~1 Hz phase noise resolution. The frequency of the tone and the > sample rate are fairly arbitrary as I'm mainly looking to benchmark the > algorithm. > > How cheaply can stable samples be acquired? I'm looking for low cost > hardware (a few $100s up to a few $k) that is stable enough to measure > phase noise comparable to a Keysight source or better. Phase noise can > be measured with an expensive phase noise analyzer, but I believe it > should be possible to do this with a low cost digitizer with a suitably > stable sample clock. The sample clock could (or perhaps must) be > external. The sample rate should be around 80-100 Msps or higher and the > platform should be able to store a burst of samples of length on the > order of 1 sec. We have done this using a ZCU 216 and it seems to work, > but that isn't really a low cost board. I've looked into Picoscope > products, which might be ideal, but their support people don't know > anything about the phase noise properties of their samplers. > > Thanks in advance to anyone whose interest is piqued enough to respond. > > Best, > Karl > > -- > Karl F. Warnick > Parkinson Engineering Research Professor > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > Brigham Young University > 450 Engineering Building > Provo, UT 84602 > (801) 422-1732 > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups " > casper@lists.berkeley.edu" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to casper+unsubscr...@lists.berkeley.edu. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/lists.berkeley.edu/d/msgid/casper/8839ddb3-83fd-40be-8a9d-c90ae6f9678e%40ee.byu.edu > . > > > > > -- > > -Daniel Blakley > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups " > casper@lists.berkeley.edu" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to casper+unsubscr...@lists.berkeley.edu. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/lists.berkeley.edu/d/msgid/casper/CAJa6%3DL1qhK7U6BZCpKxcVq6R_jiUyVtOF11Sy7rxaojsVt_OhQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/lists.berkeley.edu/d/msgid/casper/CAJa6%3DL1qhK7U6BZCpKxcVq6R_jiUyVtOF11Sy7rxaojsVt_OhQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups " > casper@lists.berkeley.edu" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to casper+unsubscr...@lists.berkeley.edu. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/lists.berkeley.edu/d/msgid/casper/001a01daf3a0%2473c331e0%245b4995a0%24%40tiscali.co.uk > <https://groups.google.com/a/lists.berkeley.edu/d/msgid/casper/001a01daf3a0%2473c331e0%245b4995a0%24%40tiscali.co.uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "casper@lists.berkeley.edu" group. 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