Well countered, John, Deb
From: bounce-127447541-83565...@list.cornell.edu <bounce-127447541-83565...@list.cornell.edu> On Behalf Of Karen Sent: Saturday, June 3, 2023 8:19 PM To: Carl Steckler <simmshil...@gmail.com>; CAYUGABIRDS-L <cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu>; John Confer <confergoldw...@aol.com> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Conservation vs Ecology On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 05:05:55 PM EDT, Carl Steckler <simmshil...@gmail.com<mailto:simmshil...@gmail.com>> wrote: Well, let me state right out front that I am about to ignite a fire storm. Are we conservationists or are we ecologists? Hope to instruct things like green energy and the impact on wildlife. This is a false dichotomy based on an incorrect definition. I taught ecology. I have had over 70 peer-reviewed publications in professional journals. I have had major NSF research grants. I am an ecologist. I know what ecology is. This is not a correct definition of ecology. Ecology is a science. Ecology tries to describe things. Ecology tries to develop testable predictions: if A occurs then B will follow. Ecology is an objective scientific study. Ecologists often have strong, personal feelings/beliefs about conservation. I have had conservation grants, too. They are quite different. If you do not know the difference between them you do not have the knowledge background to criticize them. For the ecologists among you, you place a high value on green, renewable energy, But at the same time you are ignoring the fact that green energy is detrimental to wildlife and plant life No. I am also a conservationist. I am concerned about balancing competing needs for the natural habitat that supports wildlife. Wind, turbines, kill hundreds of birds and bats every year. Both of these activities are illegal but the fact that it is green energy seems to overlook the fact that we’re destroying what we seek to keep. No. Things are illegal when they violate a relevant law. The permitting process for almost everyting, but certainly for installation of solar panel farms goes through a permitting proceess and is approved by law. It is not illegal. More and more grassland is disappearing under the covering of silicon, solar panels not only are the wildlife dispossessed, but so too is the flora. Wildlife can relocate, although it may not be to a suitable habitat, but the plants cannot relocate and often end up dying, because the sun that gives them nourishment is now blocked by solar panels The question isn't if solar farms reduce wildlife. The question is what source of energy is less deterimental. Unfortunately, the argument about green energy global warming has become more political than environmental The science of green energy global warming climate change whatever you want to call it is flawed Some like to say that global warming climate change is caused by humans. Well, I’ve seen many studies that support that and many studies that disprove that. what I haven’t seen yet is a good scientific reason why the earth goes into an Ice Age and why the earth comes out of an Ice Age And yet again, there are many theories, but they are just that theories Theories are the highest level of certainty that science provides. But, I grant that you are intending to use "theory" with a meaning that is not the use employed in a science discussion. The lack of understanding about this distinction weighs on the merit of your arguements. Without knowing the causes of an ice age or the causes of an ice age ending, we are missing a big chunk of cause-and-effect The ice-age lasted over millions of years for reasons that are irrelevant to our current. The causes for cooling/warming associated with the major advances and retreats of glacies over a totally different geological time scale are virtually irrelevant to the causes for our present rate of warming, which has largely occurred in around 100 years. The physical process for our current warming is similar to the familiar event of a car warming in the sun. Visible radiation comes in, strikes a surface and warms it up. The heat is emitted but most of it cannot get through the glass. We accept this because as infants or children we know about this. The physics of global climate change is virtually the same. For our earth, the visible radiation passes through the atmosphere. It strikes the earth's surface, and is reemitted as heat. The heat is absorbed or retained in the atmosphere by CO2 or methane, The ability of gasses to retain heat is easily and accurately measured. We know why the earth is warming now. The causes of ice age cooling and warming over hundreds of thousands of years is almost totally irrelevant to the causes of our current warming within a century. Anthropogenic global climate change was predicted by physicists a century ago due to well-measured physical properties of gasses and due to the emission of greenhouse gasses by industrilization. The physics of current warming is known and it is caused by the so-called greenhouse gasses. Does anyone disagree that when an ice age ends it gets warmer? Conversely, when an ice age starts, it gets colder and it has been doing that for a lot longer time than humans have been on this earth. So think about it do we want to be climate activist or do we want to be conservationist preserving what we have on this planet preserving the ecosystem that the animals and plants of this planet so desperately need I am not arguing, one way or another I have my beliefs, and you probably have yours. My purpose is to take a good look at the differences between conservation and ecology. As an ecologist and as a conservationist, both as a paid, funded professional, and as a personal dedication, it is upsetting to read a false dichotomy that sets the two against each other, and which is based on an uninformed description of global climate change. Obtaining the level of public support for measures that may reduce or restreain the rate of global climate change due to greenhouse gasses require a public concensus that is thwarted by the discussion presented by Carl, and that deeply bothers me. John Confer Carl Steckler -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
