Hi I am finding that solar/wind is another topic and maybe this is not the forum?
I am on so many lists for sierra club... i was hoping this was not going to be more debating or lobbying. Mary But if it is ok with the club, then i can just not read all the posts relating to energy. But i must say, oil and gas has not been so great... just saying... Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: bounce-127449912-78135...@list.cornell.edu <bounce-127449912-78135...@list.cornell.edu> on behalf of John Gregoire <johnandsuegrego...@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2023 7:45:02 AM To: t...@ottcmail.com <t...@ottcmail.com> Cc: Carl Steckler <simmshil...@gmail.com>; CAYUGABIRDS-L <cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Conservation vs Ecology A few points on this discussion. Firstly, wind turbine siting is not governed by law or even regulations. Instead there exist only "suggestions". The American Bird Conservancy has been fighting for many years to get the government to make the "suggestions" into "law" or "requirements". If an Environmental Impact Study is called for, then this is the only recourse and the best way for individuals can comment. There are a few wind power farms that have mechanisms in place to shut down during heavy migratory flights. Perhaps activists were too absorbed to suggest safe nuclear power. I have never understood why that industry has not hired ex Navy, or followed the practices of our Navy which has run nuclear power safely for decades. Agriculture is no longer small farms where "the farmers are stewards of the earth" but huge enterprises working on the principle of Economy of Mass. Locally we see this in dairy farms and their manure slurry disposal. To me that is a huge human health problem as well as the cause of the disappearance of small wetlands, diversion of streams and destruction of hedgerows and woodlots, all of which are highly imperiled by the recent SCOTUS decision. I hope that we can have such discussion without attacking each other. Pax, John On Sat, Jun 3, 2023 at 10:05 PM <t...@ottcmail.com<mailto:t...@ottcmail.com>> wrote: Hi Carl, I see no need for any fire storm, but I do disagree with your premise. I want to be a climate activist precisely because I want to be a conservationist preserving what we have locally on the planet as a whole. Unless we can reduce climate change, it will wipe out many many more plants and animals - it already is doing that. The weather patterns that result, including extreme droughts and resulting wildfires, increased summer heat in many areas, warming oceans that increase the frequency and severity of coastal storms, sea level rise, more intense inland storms due to warmer air holding more moisture - all these factors lead to the destruction of plant and animal life with dramatic effectiveness. As you point out, even though some animals can move (assuming there is time and opportunity for them in a particular situation, and they have habitat to support them in a different area), plants often can't. That doesn't mean that putting a wind turbine in the middle of a known migration route and running it during migration is a good decision IMO. Similarly, building solar projects without considering the overall needs of grassland birds is not good conservation (although at least where I live the grasslands are being gobbled up by new vineyards and new housing and parking areas rather than solar projects). People like you who see value in conserving what is here can look at the options and help ensure that green energy projects are designed and & sited in ways that protect as much of the existing ecology as possible. Only if people who care & are knowledgeable about the damage that can be done by poor design or location speak up during the permitting process, and also are willing to comment during the regulatory process so that better regulations guide green energy projects, only then will those projects be undertaken in ways that minimize the effects on the local habitat. This doesn't mean that every grassland can be protected, but it could mean that there is protection for enough grasslands in enough different areas to ensure plenty of nesting space available. I hope you will take another look at this and see if maybe you don't see a role for yourself in ensuring that the long term survival of the plants and animals you clearly are devoted to is protected, and that projects are designed and sited with sensitivity to the local ecology. Best wishes - Alicia Plotkin On 6/3/2023 5:05 PM, Carl Steckler wrote: Well, let me state right out front that I am about to ignite a fire storm. Are we conservationists or are we ecologists? Hope to instruct things like green energy and the impact on wildlife. For the ecologists among you, you place a high value on green, renewable energy, but at the same time you are ignoring the fact that green energy is detrimental to wildlife and plant life Wind, turbines, kill hundreds of birds and bats every year. Both of these activities are illegal but the fact that it is green energy seems to overlook the fact that we’re destroying what we seek to keep. More and more grassland is disappearing under the covering of silicon, solar panels not only are the wildlife dispossessed, but so too is the flora. Wildlife can relocate, although it may not be to a suitable habitat, but the plants cannot relocate and often end up dying, because the sun that gives them nourishment is now blocked by solar panels Unfortunately, the argument about green energy global warming has become more political than environmental The science of green energy global warming climate change whatever you want to call it is flawed Some like to say that global warming climate change is caused by humans. Well, I’ve seen many studies that support that and many studies that disprove that. what I haven’t seen yet is a good scientific reason why the earth goes into an Ice Age and why the earth comes out of an Ice Age And yet again, there are many theories, but they are just that theories Without knowing the causes of an ice age or the causes of an ice age ending, we are missing a big chunk of cause-and-effect Does anyone disagree that when an ice age ends it gets warmer? Conversely, when an ice age starts, it gets colder and it has been doing that for a lot longer time than humans have been on this earth. So think about it do we want to be climate activist or do we want to be conservationist preserving what we have on this planet preserving the ecosystem that the animals and plants of this planet so desperately need I am not arguing, one way or another I have my beliefs, and you probably have yours. My purpose is to take a good look at the differences between conservation and ecology. Carl Steckler -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html> Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
